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There is no such thing as free freight. Even reduced freight. You are paying for it somewhere along the way. It puts me in mind of the TV commercials "but wait there's more!" Then the shipping and handling is outrageous.

American,
Rubone wan't saying it is funny to pay extra because someone else is greedy. What he was saying is that a free market economy gives Americans advantages that many other countries lack. Competition lowers prices when things are running smoothly. When shortages hit, that means we pay more, but maybe not any more than a place where there is only one supplier. They may be paying "more" all the time.

The point of all this is to say, check for good deals. Buy when prices are low. Don't wait until the crisis hits to stock up. Remember that freight is a cost to the customer, not the vendor, even when it's "free".
 

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The only component to shipping that could have increased is labor cost during the Covid baloney. Granted demand for shipping went thru the roof with everyone ordering on line but still a major component of shipping, the cost of fuel is way down. I suspect because of demand the shippers jacked up their prices just because they can.
 

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Thank God I now reload. No more worries about ammo. My primer/bullet/boolit/powder/brass stash is kept at a level to keep me going for about 3-4 years.
 
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Seems like everyone is buying these days and many do not what the price is they should pay so some are going to try to make money.
Plus everyone in the supply chain is trying to make more money.
Supply and demand!
In other words "Buy low Sell high". That's way it is supposed to work.
 

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I just ordered 500 coated bullets in .40 from Missouri. Shipping was 25% of the deliver price.
 

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Yeah, there is nothing I find funnier than paying triple or quadruple for something.... very humorous. And people dying so that other people can live free... you know... the whole American Way thing... is that humorous too?
As Rubone said, you can't have it both ways.
 

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As Rubone said, you can't have it both ways.
There is no such thing as free freight. Even reduced freight. You are paying for it somewhere along the way. It puts me in mind of the TV commercials "but wait there's more!" Then the shipping and handling is outrageous.

American,
Rubone wan't saying it is funny to pay extra because someone else is greedy. What he was saying is that a free market economy gives Americans advantages that many other countries lack. Competition lowers prices when things are running smoothly. When shortages hit, that means we pay more, but maybe not any more than a place where there is only one supplier. They may be paying "more" all the time.

The point of all this is to say, check for good deals. Buy when prices are low. Don't wait until the crisis hits to stock up. Remember that freight is a cost to the customer, not the vendor, even when it's "free".
Who exactly was pissing and whining? And if someone was pissing and whining is that the best thing someone can say in response? That sounded exactly like what my rich socialist uncle would say as he grins about all those others who are going through a rough time while he is sitting pretty. Seems a little arrogant to say something like that.... almost as if there is a fault in capitalism and now we just have to live with this mess of a country we created.

I didn't think anyone was out in a field with their arms raised to the sky screaming out, "WHY are these shipping prices this high?"
 

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I'm only familiar with the one way. I'm not sure who was pissing and whining about capitalism.
In response to:
I find it very humorous when the folks who beat their chests about capitalism and the American way piss and whine when it rears its head. You can't have it both ways....All very simple economics.

You replied:
Yeah, there is nothing I find funnier than paying triple or quadruple for something.... very humorous.

Sounds like a complaint to me.
 

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In response to:
I find it very humorous when the folks who beat their chests about capitalism and the American way piss and whine when it rears its head. You can't have it both ways....All very simple economics.

You replied:
Yeah, there is nothing I find funnier than paying triple or quadruple for something.... very humorous.

Sounds like a complaint to me.
Try to keep up. This was after his stupid post. So before... way way back when he first posted, who is supposedly pissing and whining?

I just have to accept that some of you think you are better and smarter and just let your nonsense go uncontested... my fault. Continue making yourselves feel better. lol
 

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Yeah, there is nothing I find funnier than paying triple or quadruple for something.... very humorous. And people dying so that other people can live free... you know... the whole American Way thing... is that humorous too?
I think you’re missing each other’s points. If you go back to your copy of Adam Smith’s “The Wealth of Nations” or a college Economics 101 text, there is an intersection (equilibrium point) between supply and demand curves. That equilibrium point sets the market price and quantity that will be supplied.

Right now we’re in a period of high demand for myriad political reasons. The Econ 101 Demand Curve has shifted right. At the same time, with a lot of panicked and new gun buyers, the Demand Curve has rotated clockwise to be more vertical; this means buyers are demanding a gun with less regard to price and are willing to pay more. This is called Demand Inelasticity.

Now combine an inelastic Demand Curve shifting right with a Supply Curve that has retracted significantly leftward because of COVID-related production issues, and probably rotated counterclockwise (Supply Inelasticity, meaning they couldn’t produce many more guns if they wanted to, regardless of price) and you end up with much higher prices.

The American way is indeed to not meddle with the market because that is socialism and/or it’s evil twin, crony capitalism — the idea that government knows better than the marketplace made up of rational individuals, and government is going to artificially control the supply or demand curves out of “fairness”. In reality, government only makes the situation better for one (vocal) group at the expense of many others being worse off.

The only thing is truly “fair” is letting companies and consumers operate freely at the equilibrium price. In fact, capitalism is so fair that it “feels” unfair to all of us, because as humans we all have a skewed sense of how important we are (how much salary we should earn) or how much a product should “really cost” — as if we are somehow wiser than a market made up of hundreds of suppliers and millions of consumers. That’s the slippery slope to socialism.

So yes, it is kind of funny when people claim to be pro-American and pro-liberty, then complain about the equilibrium point of a market, which is at the core of American ideas of liberty.

I also have little sympathy for anyone who went into the 2020 election year without sufficient guns and without several months worth of ammo. I could have told you three years ago this was coming, even before the pandemic. Everyone on this forum has been talking about it and aware of the fact that there would be another surge in demand in the run up to the election.
144868
 

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Who exactly was pissing and whining? And if someone was pissing and whining is that the best thing someone can say in response? That sounded exactly like what my rich socialist uncle would say as he grins about all those others who are going through a rough time while he is sitting pretty. Seems a little arrogant to say something like that.... almost as if there is a fault in capitalism and now we just have to live with this mess of a country we created.

I didn't think anyone was out in a field with their arms raised to the sky screaming out, "WHY are these shipping prices this high?"
Whether someone is "out in a field" is debatable. While I am currently sitting at a desk, am I not speaking publicly? Again, the points being made weren't intended (in my opinion) to make anyone feel good or bad. They just are what they are. If they happen to make you upset, i think you are deciding to take them that way. Rubone's initial comment was not directed at anyone in particular. If you read my first post in full, you will see I think that the inflated prices (thanks for the in depth analysis Feral) are probably bringing us inline with what other people are paying all the time. Check out what a SR1911 costs someone in England.

I think we are all agreeing that capitalism is better than socialism. Anyone disagree with that?
 

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"[Ammo plants] are not going full bore this time...they say the orders are not coming in like they did last time."

I find that very very hard to believe. In fact, impossible to believe.
 

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I have bought reloading supplies from Falcon Bullets. I am charged for shipping ,I figure the weight of what I am ordering an continue to add cheap sample packs of a hundred until I reach maximum shipping weight. I enjoy the coated bullets, low chance of lead exposure.
 

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"[Ammo plants] are not going full bore this time...they say the orders are not coming in like they did last time."

I find that very very hard to believe. In fact, impossible to believe.

I would tend to agree. But the circumstances are very different this time. Last time,the buying was driven by a fear that firearms would be banned and people stocked up. This time it is a SD fear cuz of short supplies of toilet paper and then lots of rioting.

But my source at teh ammo plant loves to work overtime, is at the top of the list when bidding on overtime shifts and says the extra work isn't there. Up to this point they aren't ramping up production significantly.

Last time .22 LR was sold out everywhere, the prices skyrocketted Here I can get buckets full of .22 LR at normal prices.

Most people, especially new buyers, don't buy 5K of .45 cal or 9 MM ammo. A box or two will keep them happy cuz they may not even shoot their new "SD pistol." It doesn't take too many of those type of buyers to cleaning out the supply chain, But wiil that group continue to buy at a high rate? Probably not. Many bought their first fiream with hte Govt handout. They may not have an income that allows them to repeatedly buy ammo every month.

I think think the ammo companies, in view of the hassles of hiring and "protecting" more people for/on a production line during the Covid19 "pandemic" are willing to ramp up at a slower pace to see if this is a long term trend. They are betting it isn't.

Just my opinion base on what I hear from people who work for a major ammo company based in MN.
 

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Shipping costs may be related to the fact that Fedex, UPS, etc., have been doing Christmas season business for the last 4 months when so many retailers were closed. A lot of people are still buying on line rather than going out.

Just a thought, might be totally off target.
 

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My opinion -

1) The people causing the shortage are us. Not them, us. I doubt the first time SD buyers are doing much to exasperate this "problem". If you look, SD ammo is available, but bulk target ammo is not.
2) I also believe that 22LR stocks were high after the last shortage ended and the existing supply will follow the same path as 9mm has. I am now buying a brick or two of 22LR when I am in a place that has it reasonably priced. Right now, vanilla 22LR is going for around $25/525 brick. I realize that I am contributing to what I believe will be another 22LR ammo shortage. Just like I did when I saw Covid coming and stocked up on the common "military caliber" stuff.

I am getting pretty good at seeing these buying sprees coming. I am 2 for 2 now on buying up before shortages, when stuff was on sale.
 
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