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I got the new Hornady 8th Edition. The range for TB in a .45 Colt pushing a 250g bullet went down to 5.6g (IMR load data says 5.8g). I looked over at .44 Mag and got a surprise for 240g SWC . It goes up to 9.6g for 1000fps! Looking at the imr load data the max is 7.3g for 917fps.... What peaked my interest is 9.6g must be a compressed load! Why? Well in a big .45 Colt case (same length at .44Mag case), I can only fit 8.5g under the 250g RNFP bullet (not that much heavier) without compressing it. Checking the crimp grove compared to the crimp grove on a 240 SWC, the 240 sits a bit lower into the .44Mag case.... Anyway, just found this, well, interesting.... so passing it along!

9.6g Trail Boss in .44Mag case :


Have 50 8.0g and 50 8.5g TB loads pushing 250g RNFP setup for accuracy retest in Ruger .45 Colt BH. Just got to find time to get to the club now to test. :rolleyes: .

Another interesting thing (I didn't know) is TB is #19 on the burn chart. Win231 is #17, HP-38 is #20. Unique is #26. Just to put the powder in perspective.
 

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rclark, The above 44 mag load with 9.6 gr of Trail Boss tracks with QuickLOAD at a chamber pressure of 33,000 psi. This is almost 10% under SAAMI max pressure limits of 36,000 psi so it should be quite safe to shoot.

With 45 Colts, you are dealing with very low chamber pressure (14,000 SAAMI max). Although the heavy frame Ruger Vaqueros and Blackhawks will stand up to much higher pressures, the issue with excessive pressure is more of a concern in Colts SAAs, Colt clones, and New Vaqueros.
 

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What caught my eye was the 'compressed' load. I was under the impression to 'never' compress Trail Boss and here we have a 'real' compressed load. Not just a 'slight' compressed load :) .

Thanks for the quick load verification.
 

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What caught my eye was the 'compressed' load. I was under the impression to 'never' compress Trail Boss and here we have a 'real' compressed load. Not just a 'slight' compressed load
I was under the same impression. I could swear that more then one review of trailboss said the same thing. Oh well, I guess it's like laundry detergant "New and Improved".
 

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Trail Boss is still a very new powder. Wait until it has been on the market a few more years and you might see some other surprises. Speer's #14 only has one 45 Colt load for Trail Boss and none for 44 Mags. I suspect that will change with #15 ... whenever it is published.

I like the Hornady manual and trust their loads. Looks like I have a home for the $50 Cabela's gift card I got for Christmas.
 

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rclark,

To the base of the 44-240-SWC in my 44 Magnum cases is 6.5 grains of Trail Boss. The 9.6 is absolutely a compressed load without doubt! As much as I am a proponent of the 70% rule and working up from there—6.5 should be maximum with the 44-240-SWC boolit. I would be a bit nervous of the 9.6 grain charge. What is interesting about that is the fact that with the same boolit and a 445 Super Magnum case, 10.0 grains was to the base of that cartridge. I shot 9.5 grains for a velocity of 1022 fps. The 6.5 grains in the 44 Magnum produced only 787 fps…

In the 45LC with the 45-270—SAA (~283 grains), I was able to get 8.0 grains of Trail Boss to the base, for a velocity of 825 fps. I used the 70% rule and rounded up to 6.0 grains. That gave a velocity of 715 fps. I finally chose 7.0 grains at 782 fps as the most accurate. So, the charge of 8.5 of Trail Boss under the 250 grainer should about correct…

Let me know the velocities and I might try a 250 grain mold sometime, although I really like the 45-270-SAA boolit. It works dang well with H-110 and Lil’Gun at the 1175-1250 fps range. But, recoil is not fun!

And so it goes…

BCB
 

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Let me know the velocities
Can't... No chrony :eek: . One of the things I need to get next! Shooting for accuracy and the 8.0 and 8.5 showed promise (in my revolver) .
 

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BCB, You're forgetting our old friend again .... chamber pressure. In a 44 Mag, you can go up to 36,000 psi. The 45 Colt is only 14,000 psi (SAAMI). This is a huge difference. I would trust Hornady's SAAMI certified lab pressure results WAY more than the silly 70% concept.

As far as compressed loads ... I read Trail Boss would go nuclear if it was compressed ... no specific reference except IMR's recommendations. It looks like Hornady busted this myth .... at least with a 44 Mag. The Hornady load is right up there in pressure and if you look at the change in velocity versus the change in charge weights in rclark's post #121, it does indicate the powder is going non-linear. If you look at my earlier post #27 in this thread, I included a "theoretical pressure curve" chart. Granted, it is not for any specific powder, bullet, or case but the "zones" are clearly identified. Looks to me like the above 44 Mag load is out of the linear zone and into the safety margin. Although this load pressure tested within limits, I'm thinking this would not be a good load to hot rod.
 

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BCB, You're forgetting our old friend again .... chamber pressure. In a 44 Mag, you can go up to 36,000 psi. The 45 Colt is only 14,000 psi (SAAMI). This is a huge difference. I would trust Hornady's SAAMI certified lab pressure results WAY more than the silly 70% concept. QUOTE]

Nope, ain't forgetting the chamber pressure situation!..

As we have both debated many times in the past--your QuckLoad says one thing, and my field experiences show another. And that is in all of the cartridges that I have used the 70% formula...

So Iowegan, on this subject, you and I are going to be on different sides of the highway. And it is unlikely we will meet at the centerline on this one!...

But that doesn't mean we can't stop at an establishment and just shoot the breeze about other subject!...

BCB
 

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Shot the 8.0g and 8.5g loads TB pushing 250g RNFP .45 Colt again today... Brrrrr. 18F and blowing snow. Both loads show about the same accuracy (I couldn't tell the difference). About an 1 1/4" leaning shooting arm against a post at 15Y. All shells ejected just fine, no sign of 'high pressure'. It may be my imagination but I thought the loads shot a bit cleaner than the 6.0g load I was using. Shot the 6.0g load too and it was 1 3/4" . Next step is try at 25Y to see how they open up. Too coooold to continue today.

Conclusion is I don't see a problem shooting these loads in 'my' guns. The kick is mild, accuracy is good. No leading. I also don't plan on compressing any loads for testing or otherwise. Trailboss is what it is. No need to push it. I got Unique, 2400, 4227, 231, HS6 for medium and hot .45 Colt loads. At some point I want to try some SWC loads too, but that will be down the road.

Also tried some 4.2g TB loads pushing a 158g SWC ( (12 BHN) in the .357. What a wimpy load! Still it was accurate at 15Y. It came in at 1 1/4". Need to now move it out to 25Y for final testing. After 30 rounds I don't see much leading if any. The 5.5g of Unique with same bullet leaded up the barrel pretty good.
 

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Have some chrono reading (first ones ever!) .... The F1 appears to work great!

Following is in FPS and rounded.

.45 Colt Ruger BH 5 1/2" Barrel 250g RNFP bullet
Trail Boss Powder
6.0g Average 794 STDEV 14
8.0g Average 865 STDEV 13
8.5g Average 885 STDEV 12 (powder is right to the base of bullet with this charge)

Any way it was fun. Also did some other loads( 4227 and Uni) and some with the .44Spec today.

Forgot to say that it appears the 8.5g load shoots the best among the above TB loads. Want to change over to 255g SWCs next and check those bullets out.... Always something to try :D . Also no leading in any of above loads. Bullets advertized as 15BHN.
 

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My gun shop said it's for mild loads like cowboy shooters use, so I bought a can to load some 38-40 Win for my 1873 winchester made in 1885 to test it out before trying a heavyer load, since it's such a old gun.
 

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Passing along some Ruger .357 4 5/8" barrel Chronograph results

125 LC, TB 5.0g. 832 Average, 25 STDEV
158 SWC, TB 4.2g. 721 Average, 24 STDEV

I also shot a set with my Dad's SP-101 which has a 3" barrel.

125 LC, TB 5.0g. 663 Average, 22 STDEV

No leading.
 

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Trail Boss Powder

Got to try 8.5g with a 255g Bevel base SWC today. Here are the results. Looks like an accurate .45 Colt load. No leading.

.45 Colt Ruger BH 5 1/2" Barrel 255g SWC bullet CCI-300 primer.

8.5g Average 899 STDEV 13 (29 shots fired for this data)

Powder is slightly compressed with this charge. No signs of over pressure.
 

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rclark,

That sounds about right or what one would expect…

Eight grains is maximum with the 45-270-SAA (283 grains) and I was getting 825 fps…

I settled on 7.0 grains for 782 fps…

I have shot it at various distances up to 50 yards. I found my accuracy limit was about 40 yards. Whether that is “eye related” or the accuracy of the 7.0 grains just fades at or near the 40 yard mark. I don’t know. But, with a ‘scoped SRH in 44 Magnum, a similar load was a 1.5” shooter most of the time at 50 yards. No doubt it is the ‘scope that is the verifier of accuracy…

I know there would be cheaper powders to shoot and give the same velocity with fewer grains—but there is just something fascinating about Trail Boss…

Throw the charge, seat the boolit, go to the range, make smoke, and hear the clang of the steel target or the “punch” of the paper targets…

BCB
 

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I know there would be cheaper powders to shoot and give the same velocity with fewer grains—but there is just something fascinating about Trail Boss…
A agree. My main interest was seeing how TB did in a .45 Colt filled with TB up to base of bullet and also slightly compressed. As far as I can tell this is a perfectly 'safe' load. Standard deviation is good too. I was just curious and wanted to do some tests to learn more about it! Now that I've done so, I have more confidence is using this powder over its range. I've even loaded up some 600fps loads for firelapping a .357 which went well BTW.
 

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.44Spec BH 5 1/2" Barrel
5.2g Trail Boss, 240g SWC, CCI-300 primer 756fps Avg, 12 STD, 57 Spread (30 shots)

5.2g fills the case to base of bullet BTW... One ragged hole at 15Y, but shoots a bit left and a bit high in my revolver compared to the Skeeter load which is dead on. Go figure.
 

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Another good load for .45 ACP in Revolver :

.45 BH flattop convertible 5 1/2" Barrel
.45ACP: 4.5g Trail Boss, 200g TC, CCI-300 primer 821fps Avg, 19 STD, 74 ES (30 shots)

FYI, If I throw out the 2 high and the 2 low out, I was down to 12 STD and 50 ES. Shoots very well and seems to shoot 'clean'.
 

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My favorite .38 plinking load is 3.8 gr. of Trail Boss with a 158 gr. Missouri Bullet Co. LSWC. It is EXTREMELY accurate out of my 6" bbl Security Six, with no leading, and very clean.
 
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