[mudpuppy]

I posted this under 22 rimfire and didn't get any answers, so I will try here. I have always been told to use the bronze barrel brush from the chamber end of the barrel and push toward the muzzle.

My Mark III 22/45 is more difficult to field strip than my larger caliber pistols. Does it make any difference if you use the barrel brush from the muzzle to clean the bore with nitro solvent - or should I wait until I can field strip the gun and always work from the chamber end of the barrel?

 

[Iowegan]

mudpuppy, Don't be offended but I get a real charge out of some of the things I hear about cleaning guns. I think some of it must have started with some crazed drill sergeant ... or maybe a grampa that is trying to impress his 12 year old grandson. What ever the source, the tails spread like a forest fire and bench rest shooter will swear by it.

It makes absolutely no difference what end you start from. With "ease of operation" in mind, it is much easier to pull a rod through a bore rather than push it through. All you have to do is use a rod that is long enough and run it through the bore with the pistol's bolt locked back. Screw the bore brush into the rod then pull it out. With a MK pistol, you can do this without field stripping .. but .... that only accounts for the bore. What about all that powder pucky that gets blown back into the bowls of the pistol? It needs attention too. A good compromise would be to field strip every other cleaning. You'll find it much easier to clean the bore if the bolt has been removed.

P.S. I always clean from the muzzle end and do both the push and pull. I start with a cloth patch sopping wet with solvent then run it back and forth in the bore a few times. Let the gun sit for a few minutes to allow the solvent to work. Insert a bore brush and take several full length strokes to loosed up the crud. Follow up with clean patches to mop the bore. I field strip my MK III after each shooting session and it gets easier each time.

 

[mudpuppy]

IOWEGAN,
Exactly what I needed to know. Thanks! I agree that the crud needs to be cleaned out of the working parts on a regular basis and will do so.

After shooting it a bit, I field stripped it and it wasn't that bad. Just have to be careful on the reassembly.
MP

 

[SAJohn]

Iowegan, I have always laughed about that old tale also. I've scrubbed my OM SBH out from the front for 40 years now and the barrel is still in fine shape. Barrel steel is just a bit harded than those brushes.

It has awhile. How are you doing? On another forum they sometimes cry that you don't visit.

SAJohn

 

[Iowegan]

SAJohn, Hey ... welcome my friend. I gave up on the "other" forum a couple months ago. Hope you find this forum as fun as I do.

 

[B.Roberts]

I think the cleaning from the breach end thing started to avoid possible damage to the barrel's crown from the rod itself, not the brush. I agree, the steel used in the firearm is much tougher than the bronze brush, but what about the steel rod behind the brush? I clean from whichever end is easiest to get to. But when cleaning from the muzzle, I use a rod guide, or just use extreme caution so I don't rub the muzzle crown with the cleaning rod.

I trust Iowegan's advice implicitly and would feel safe cleaning whichever way he recommended. But it wouldn't hurt to be real careful with your muzzles crown.

 

[Doc45]

I have found the quick and easy way to clean the MK III is to put rubber grips on the gun so you don't have to worry about them then just throw the whole gun in the dishwasher!!! (Someday I'm really gonna try that).

 

[Iowegan]

B.Roberts, You're right ... cleaning from the breach end is supposed to help protect the crown. Actually, this is way overstated. Not to say it's impossible to damage a crown, but you would really have to try hard. Here's a challenge:

Find a piece of scrap steel. Acquire a steel cleaning rod. Place the steel scrap in a vice then pick a convenient spot to apply friction. Measure or photograph the piece "before" then apply liberal amounts of powder residue to the rod. Use a motion like a hack saw to rasp the cleaning rod against the steel scrap. Stop every few minutes and apply more powder residue. Keep this up for 24 hours then remeasure or do an "after" photograph for comparison. Despite your best efforts, the steel scrap will not show much more than if it were polished. Myth busted.

Here's the deal ... a single round fired from any gun will cause more friction wear than anything you can do with a cleaning rod. The bullet is being pushed by intense pressure at very hot temperatures and is compounded by abrasive powder residue. Unless you are Super Man, I doubt you could equal that amount of abuse.

Gale McMillan (of McMillan barrel fame) was a good friend of mine. He was probably the world's best authority on barrels and made some of the most accurate rifle barrels in the business. He used to talk about the three biggest barrel myths ... cleaning, break-in, and fire lapping. Unfortunately, Gale isn't with us any more but you can do a Google and see what he had to say.

 

[Darkness]

Along B.Roberts' line of thinking, the way I understood it was that sometime guys used a cleaning rod that was just barely long enough to push the brush all the way through the barrel. When pushing, they would use the open-palm, push as hard as you can method, which resulted in the handle on the cleaning rod crashing into the barrel crown, and that's what would cause the damage.

Never seen it myself, though.

 

[Bozack]

Before Boresnakes, I cleaned many of my rifles from the muzzle end. I used a brass rod and rod guide when cleaning my guns. I never believed that a soft brass rod could damage a steel barrel but used the guide because I felt it helped clean the barrel better. Now I have Boresnakes and couldn't tell you were my cleaning rod is.

 

[BuckJM53]

I'm with you Bozack ... The bore snake is probably not the best thing since sliced bread, but they sure are handy and do a great job.

 

[41 Magnum]

I've been cleaning "everything" from the muzzle end, for 50 years now. I would defy anyone to show me "any" damage from cleaning, to any firearm I own. All my old cleaning rods were either wood, or brass, & now I think everything is aluminum. Like Iowegen says, I think You could rub a brass or wood or aluminum rod on barrel steel for quite q long time, & without some form of added "real abrasive", see no effect. I own too many guns that it would be a real PITA to clean from the breach end, & I don't usually have my cleaning rods or brushes coated with valve grinding compound, so I ain't too worried.

 

[Song Dawg]

When I was a kid I'd never heard of breech to muzzle cleaning. With the advent of the internet lots of folks became authories on various subjects including gun cleaning.
That's when I first read all the forbidden muzzle cleaning stuff.
To this day lilja and Shilen and others say no SS brushes and No muzzle to breach. Benchresters are all over the lot. As hard as I've tried I've never boogered a bore/crown by cleaning with a bronze brush regardless of which ends up.
I'm too old to worry about it anyway!


SD

 

[B.Roberts]

Iowegan, that test sounds too time consuming and hard for me to replicate. Point taken.

 

[SAJohn]

I have never actually seen a steel cleaning rod. I have an antique Outers Laboratory rod which came in a round cardboard tube and which must be over 80 years old and it is made of aluminum. Try Iowegan's test with aluminum on steel.

If the steel could be damaged, shoving from the breach end wouldn't do the forcing cone much good either.

John

 

[madcratebuilder]

Most GI rods I have seen are steel, but general use are aluminum. My wife bought my one of those fancy one piece, carbon fiber, roller bearing deals for my bd, works great on my rifles. I use a crown protector on my muzzles, pretty simple to keep the rod centered in the bore.

 

[Crestliner]

.22's

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the steel, that .22 barrels are made of, softer than larger caliber bores? I've always been told not to use a brush on these bores for that reason. Rather, to clean them very infrequently and when you do clean them, just soak them (by plugging one end and filling with solvent) for a couple of hours. Then just drain and swab them dry and you're good to go.

I have an old Marlin 39-D which I've done this to ever since I bought it back in 1971. Have I been screwing up - again!?

BTW, I have a stainless steel, one piece, .22 cal. cleaning rod, which a gunsmith, back when I bought the Marlin, told me was the best rod to use for cleaning that ole .22. Geeze!

 

[Iowegan]

Crestliner, Partly "old wives tales" .... partly true. Before WWII, metallurgy wasn't what it is today. Most 22 rifles had nothing more than cold rolled steel barrels. It is not unusual to see an old rifle with a worn out bore. Since WWII, metallurgy has taken a quantum leap ... since then, barrels are made of alloys to get proper hardness and are way more wear resistant. The point is ... unless you are dealing with a 70 year old barrel, a standard cleaning regimen is just fine. I do tend to be a bit more careful with those old Winchesters and Remingtons but I still use a bronze bore brush and Hoppies.