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Discussion Starter #1
I left one of my magazines loaded for a few weeks with 15 rounds. When I unloaded it, the magazine spring didn't seem to be strong enough to be able to "feed" the last few rounds (didn't actually try to feed the rounds through my P95). Any ideas?
 

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CRC ... This issue has been debated for a very long time. While I'm not an expert on metallurgy or spring design, my experience is that leaving magazines loaded for extended periods of time does not do any significant damage to the springs or create any feeding issues. If you hand cycle the rounds from the magazine in question through your P95, I think that you will find that the rounds will feed just fine.
 

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I have left magazines (Ruger, Glock, S&W, Kel-Tec) loaded for months at a time without any ill effect. Go out and shoot your pistol, I think you'll find that it's fine. If you are worried about it's condition, switch to another proven magazine until you can test it. Best of luck.

Kenny
 

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Magazine spring madness: 'creep' to your 'elastic limit' to un-earth the urban legend of 'spring-set'
by John S. Layman

The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.
The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?
Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.
Shameful Spring Benders
To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.
Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.
Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.
We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.
At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we
learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.
As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.
Trust Us
When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.
When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.
Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.
RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions
Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.
Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.
Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.
Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.
Magazine Recommendations
* Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.
* If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.
* If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.
* If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.
Edit/Delete Message
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the advice. I thought the proof in the pudding was actually firing the gun with the magazine - and the pre-proof would be simply cycling the rounds.. I've also read about the spring-set in myth, but I never saw rounds nose dive (or really go horizontal) in a mag.
 

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Magazine spring madness: 'creep' to your 'elastic limit' to un-earth the urban legend of 'spring-set'
by John S. Layman

The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.
The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?
Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.
Shameful Spring Benders
To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.
Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.
Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.
We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.
At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we
learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.
As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.
Trust Us
When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.
When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.
Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.
RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions
Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.
Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.
Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.
Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.
Magazine Recommendations
  • Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.
  • If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.
  • If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.
  • If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.
Edit/Delete Message
I know this post is old. I really appreciate your explanation. I heard one time in an audio book of all places the character left one round shy in the magazine to prevent spring set. since this at the time was the only information I had I've stuck with it. It made kind of sense to me. Besides I had know way knowing the difference at the time, most people I know that shoots believed as I did. Now thanks to you I have some better knowledge and a bit more understanding. However I have a couple of my magazines that are hard to load and often fail to feed. I have tried to clean them and have since bought replacements. I still have those three magazines, I was going to throw them away, but thought maybe they were salvageable. Any ideas on how to fix them?
 

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I know this post is old. I really appreciate your explanation. I heard one time in an audio book of all places the character left one round shy in the magazine to prevent spring set. since this at the time was the only information I had I've stuck with it. It made kind of sense to me. Besides I had know way knowing the difference at the time, most people I know that shoots believed as I did. Now thanks to you I have some better knowledge and a bit more understanding. However I have a couple of my magazines that are hard to load and often fail to feed. I have tried to clean them and have since bought replacements. I still have those three magazines, I was going to throw them away, but thought maybe they were salvageable. Any ideas on how to fix them?

Take them apart and clean out all the gunk with your powder solvent of choice. When dry, polish up the insides with Meguiar's auto polish. That makes the insides slick without attracting and holding grime.
 

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I replaced every magazine spring in my Ruger P guns after about 20 years of use. Some were used mags I bought for cheap on Ebay, so I have no idea how many years/rounds of life they had left. When a couple mags felt real weak and I got some fail to feeds.........I contacted MidwayUSA and got wolff mag springs for about $6 a piece. Easy to change out. Peace of mind and cheap insurance.
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Same here, I have left many different brands of magazines loaded for long amounts of time and never had a problem. If the spring is old and been used (not left loaded) a lot then it may be time to replace the mag spring.
Depends on how it feeds.
If not comfortable using live rounds then use snap caps or make up some dummy rounds to use to see how the mag feeds.
 

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Thank you I really appreciate that. I will try that as soon as get back home, god and my boss only knows when that will be. Lol
I replaced every magazine spring in my Ruger P guns after about 20 years of use. Some were used mags I bought for cheap on Ebay, so I have no idea how many years/rounds of life they had left. When a couple mags felt real weak and I got some fail to feeds.........I contacted MidwayUSA and got wolff mag springs for about $6 a piece. Easy to change out. Peace of mind and cheap insurance. View attachment 144026
Thank you. I bought this pistol from a friend a few years back. I have no idea how many rounds have been through them. The mags were all had rounds in tbe, when I shot it the first time that when it wouldn't feed properly. I took the rounds that were left in it and tried to load the mag. The rounds just wouldn't stack. I would tap it and load a couple more. I would would have to do that every few rounds.
Thank you for the contact on the springs and the idea to do that.
 
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