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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hungstart, A bullet fired from a 9mm Blackhawk travels through the throat, which is like a bore with no rifling. It then contacts the forcing cone and travels down the bore, just like any other revolver. The length of the throat has very little, if any, influence on accuracy.

I own 2 Blackhawk 357/9mm Convertibles and have tested accuracy with both of them. I used a Browning Hi-Power and a CZ-75b 9mm semi auto pistols in comparison. These two guns are well rated for accuracy in relation to other 9mm pistols. First, 9mm cartridges are not very accurate in any gun. Have you ever seen a match grade 9mm? Neither have I. That said, my 9mm 6 1/2" Blackhawk Convertible is more accurate than either of my 9mm pistols buy a notable amount. With standard 124gr factory loads, my CZ and Browning are hard pressed to shoot groups under 2" at 25 yards. Using the same ammo at the same distance, my 4 5/8" Blackhawk will shoot about 1 1/2" groups but my 6 1/2" 9mm Blackhawk will shoot an inch group at the same distance. 115gr bullets are notably less accurate in both revolvers and pistols. 147gr 9mm bullets are a bit more accurate in both pistols and revolvers.

Here's the kicker ..... both of my Blackhawks will shoot half-inch groups at 25 yards with 38 Special 148gr hollow base wad cutters, which qualifies for "match grade". They will also shoot 1" groups with most jacketed bullets in 38 Special or 357 Mag. When most gun owners run similar tests, they usually come to the same conclusion .... 9mms are just not as accurate. Why?

There are several reasons but the three most important are excessive headspace, rifling twist rate, and bore diameter. You will find most 9mm cases are about .010" shorter than the SAAMI standard to minimize feeding malfunctions. Because 9mm cartridges headspace on the case mouth, short cases will result in excessive headspace .... about .020". This is excessive for any cartridge but especially for cartridges with a tapered case. The reason is simple .... when the cartridge is backed out of the chamber by .020" until it touches the recoil shield, the tapered case and tapered chamber prevents the bullet from aligning perfectly with the throat. This condition is known to damage bullets, which in turn makes them fly a bit goofy. A 38 Special or 357 Mag case has straight walls .... no taper, and will typically have .006" headspace (distance from the case head to the recoil shield). This keeps the bullet in perfect alignment with the cylinder throat and bore and keeps bullet damage to a minimum.

357/9mm Blackhawks have a 1:16 rifling twist rate, which keeps bullet stabilized for a considerable distance. Typical 9mm pistols, such as my CZ or Browning have a much faster 1:10 twist rate. The faster twist rate is needed to maintain stability with 9mm bullets that have very poor ballistic coefficients. So .... when 9mm bullets are fired in a slower twist rate barrel, accuracy is less than stellar, especially at distances longer than 25 yards. Then why is a 9mm cartridge more accurate out of a Blackhawk than a good quality pistol? Primarily, it's the headspace issue.

Bore diameter gets blamed for poor accuracy in a Blackhawk, although being somewhat true, it is the least of your worries. Typical 9mm pistols have a .355" bore whereas a Blackhawk has a .357" bore. The Blackhawk's bore dimensions between lands is about .345" so even a .355" bullet is going to get engraved by rifling (.005" deep per land) but because jacketed bullets don't expand in the bore like lead bullets (called obturation) they don't get as good of a seal in the bore, like .357" jacketed or .358" lead bullets. This coupled with excessive headspace and a slower twist rate will cause something less than optimum accuracy.

So here's my test conclusions for my 4 5/8" and 6 1/2" Blackhawk convertibles. The most accurate in both guns are .358" lead bullets with 148gr LHBWCs being the absolute best. The next most accurate are LRN 158gr bullets in 38 Special. Jacketed bullets in 38 Specials are next followed by jacketed bullets in 357 Mag cases. Last and certainly least are jacketed 9mm bullets .... the lighter the weight, the worse the accuracy. That said, 9mm accuracy in my Blackhawks is still notably better than in a good quality semi-auto pistol. I contribute poor pistol accuracy to sloppy barrel-to-slide fit.
 

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Thanks for posting your results. Kind of disappointing to hear that the H110 and BlueDot didn't work out too well. I guess you can go back to the powder you used at the beginning of this thread. You had excellent results with that powder. I have about 50 rounds of 158g RNFP loaded up with SR7625 which gave me acceptable groups. Just wish I had more of that powder. I'm down to Bullseye and Titegroup as my only powders.
 

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Iowegan, I for one, appreciate the knowledge you share on this forum. We all stand to learn from it. Thank you for that explanation. Wish we were neighbors. hungstart, welcome to the forum and good luck with your "itch"!
Thanks for the welcome. I will admit to have been creeping here for a while, but didn't think I had much to add of value.
 

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Newcastle, on the Western edge of the Black Hills. I grew up in Custer and have never called any place but 'the Hills' home,
RAP308,

That is exactly where we have been looking. Also Upton, Sundance, and Moorcroft area. Mainly the Highway 85 corridor. We have been looking for 40 plus acres with a house. I want to build my own range. Is the range still open there in Newcastle? We drove up to it on one of our scouting trips, but no one was there,
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
hunstart, We currently boast a membership that exceeds 90,000. I can assure you .... if you have a question, it's likely some of the other members have the same question but are too shy to ask. So, you do have things that add value to the forum!
 

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I'm sorry, powder availability seems to be coming back although not at decent prices. Best of luck finding some.

AA#9 seems to be my favorite for 77/357 magnum loads now. Not a wasted effort. I'll take a 2" group at 100 yards from this rifle. They used to be 4" or worse so my hack job was worth something.
I don't understand why the H110 loads were too hot. I have used that load in my GP100. I think the 1/2 lb left of powder went bad.
I would have really liked to have shot all these from the 50 yard range. Maybe next time.
 

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Just called Ruger and they said they replaced the barrel and slide assembly and fired 30 rounds through it. I’m supposed to have it back on Thursday.
same here danny was the exact same with mine,,,mine initially did nothing but jammed failed to eject and feed or extract cartridges got stuck and ,,when i got mine back with the note that said replaced entire slide assemblyand barrel,,,befor sending it to ruger ,outof the box issues when cartridges got stuck no feed or eject but literally gotstuck so much so slide wouldnt budge at all or give any until i literally dropped the mag out freeing up enough space to move slide back more then stuck round would fall out of mag well......heads up because ive been there and this is jus me telling you what i dealt with perhaps yours might not be the same but sure sounds like it.....make sure you inspect barrel and slide,,,,may give you used parts be that as it may with mine,,when i got it back it was successfully completing cycle ejecting extracting etc jus minor occasionally still doing it barrel did have some small scratches that grew more so because where the slide comes back cycling to open for another roaund to load the top part of slide makes a little contact rubbing up against the top of the barrell but weapon was better not totally 100% but because i know weapons and gunsmithing on my own and weapon functionality yep,, i vowed after hearing stories of repeatedly having to send it back to ruger back and forth back and forth,,,but wasnt gonna be me i took a chance worked with it on my own,,,

Gaining info about why it even does this at all caught a wiff of this dude on youtube who discover things that made his work flawlessly without error and what cauhght my attention about his video danny he uploaded or created that video and posted in 2015,,,so know what that told me,,,it said for a problem common among LCP models i think he had a LCP 2 or something like that,,,but his issues were the same as what weare having with lcp max,,the exact same smh.. 2022 lcp max 380 models currently,,i was like mann thats so sorry of ruger to have the same issues and never fixing ,,,will repair at no cost ,,,this is why theyll tell you they dont have a warranty but they back repairs and faults,,
All im saying danny is mine was doing exactly i think what yours was,,,its said and certainly not uncommon for a few bad ones to get passed quality control but with the problems its terrible ruger doesnt pay closer attention ,,,the youtuber i followed advise from i think had a lcp 2 and it was posted in 2015so know what that told me,,,ruger has yet to find a fix but will repair until you dont complain any more,,this is not that ruger is bad because i luv this lil thing ,,,its why i fought for it determined to make it what i wanted i knew its potential i know certain rugers fire arms though never owned one and i do like em,,,but could of done without the issue of what i had with my max but irregardless i luv this thing ,,, if they come out with a even better one yep im confident i may even upgrade if it has issues yep i know enough gunsmithing to figure things out with rugers warranty backing.....good luck let me know if you want that video its in one of my eariler post ,,,jus trying to help because i know exactly what your talking about!! deuces! infact never mind here it is incase you wanna see it....worked for me RUGER LCP .380 Problems and Reliability Issues Solved - YouTube
 

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If you reload the 9mm luger rounds with cast lead bullets sized to .357" and accuracy test a few loads you can come up with surprising accuracy .
Probably the most common reason for having a 9mm luger cylinder is versatility . The 9mm was at one time dirt cheap and easy to find ... combined with all the loads in 38 Special and all the loads in 357 Magnum and that one convertible revolver covers a lot of ground . You could walk into just about any store that sold ammo and find something to shoot ...
Gary
 

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RAP308,

That is exactly where we have been looking. Also Upton, Sundance, and Moorcroft area. Mainly the Highway 85 corridor. We have been looking for 40 plus acres with a house. I want to build my own range. Is the range still open there in Newcastle? We drove up to it on one of our scouting trips, but no one was there,
Yes, the range is open. It is operated for its members by the Weston County Sportsmans Club: Weston County Sportsmans Club - Shooting Range, Gun Club (westoncountyshooting.com) They change the combo on the lock annually. Renewal is due this month and the new combo comes with your renewal. Contact Dan or Cody at the Badlands Armory/Cambria Supply in Newcastle.

I just signed up last fall, so I don't have a lot of info but the guys at BA will help. The club holds several events a year, a .22 shoot is coming up as noted on the site.
 

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same here danny was the exact same with mine,,,mine initially did nothing but jammed failed to eject and feed or extract cartridges got stuck and ,,when i got mine back with the note that said replaced entire slide assemblyand barrel,,,befor sending it to ruger ,outof the box issues when cartridges got stuck no feed or eject but literally gotstuck so much so slide wouldnt budge at all or give any until i literally dropped the mag out freeing up enough space to move slide back more then stuck round would fall out of mag well......heads up because ive been there and this is jus me telling you what i dealt with perhaps yours might not be the same but sure sounds like it.....make sure you inspect barrel and slide,,,,may give you used parts be that as it may with mine,,when i got it back it was successfully completing cycle ejecting extracting etc jus minor occasionally still doing it barrel did have some small scratches that grew more so because where the slide comes back cycling to open for another roaund to load the top part of slide makes a little contact rubbing up against the top of the barrell but weapon was better not totally 100% but because i know weapons and gunsmithing on my own and weapon functionality yep,, i vowed after hearing stories of repeatedly having to send it back to ruger back and forth back and forth,,,but wasnt gonna be me i took a chance worked with it on my own,,,

Gaining info about why it even does this at all caught a wiff of this dude on youtube who discover things that made his work flawlessly without error and what cauhght my attention about his video danny he uploaded or created that video and posted in 2015,,,so know what that told me,,,it said for a problem common among LCP models i think he had a LCP 2 or something like that,,,but his issues were the same as what weare having with lcp max,,the exact same smh.. 2022 lcp max 380 models currently,,i was like mann thats so sorry of ruger to have the same issues and never fixing ,,,will repair at no cost ,,,this is why theyll tell you they dont have a warranty but they back repairs and faults,,
All im saying danny is mine was doing exactly i think what yours was,,,its said and certainly not uncommon for a few bad ones to get passed quality control but with the problems its terrible ruger doesnt pay closer attention ,,,the youtuber i followed advise from i think had a lcp 2 and it was posted in 2015so know what that told me,,,ruger has yet to find a fix but will repair until you dont complain any more,,this is not that ruger is bad because i luv this lil thing ,,,its why i fought for it determined to make it what i wanted i knew its potential i know certain rugers fire arms though never owned one and i do like em,,,but could of done without the issue of what i had with my max but irregardless i luv this thing ,,, if they come out with a even better one yep im confident i may even upgrade if it has issues yep i know enough gunsmithing to figure things out with rugers warranty backing.....good luck let me know if you want that video its in one of my eariler post ,,,jus trying to help because i know exactly what your talking about!! deuces! infact never mind here it is incase you wanna see it....worked for me RUGER LCP .380 Problems and Reliability Issues Solved - YouTube
Great video. With these guns getting smaller and smaller with more rounds available, the tolerances in the guns are getting tighter and tighter creating more problems. The only manf that has seemed to figure it out is Sig. My P365 is flawless. I contacted MCarbo to see if they were going to make a trigger spring kit like they did for my FN509T I will definitely buy it. They said it’s in the works, but no ETA. it took my trigger pull from 7.8#’s and gritty to 3.6#’s and smooth as silk. For $20, it was the best upgrade I’ve ever done to any gun. Supposedly they have a better take down pin that I may try. It’s supposed to take the sloppiness out of the slide assembly.
 

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The versatility was the biggest reason I was thinking of one. I'm relativity new to revolvers, the Army gave me a 1911 to carry and that started me down the semi-auto path. My 1st revolver was a bear gun when I was in Alaska. I do reload, but most of my stuff is 9mm/45ACP. I do have some 38 special, but it's kinda hard/pricey to expand to different calibers right now. While it's fun to blast away with a 2.5" 44 mag, it gets pricey after awhile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
gwpercle, There's no way I can seat a .357 bullet in a 9mm case and expect it to chamber in either one of my Blackhawk Convertibles. The largest bullet diameter I can use is .356" and it is a very snug fit that requires physically pushing the cartridge in the chambers. Normal 9mm ammo with .355" bullets plunk right in the chambers.

I don't shoot my 9mm cylinders very much .... just enough to satisfy my curiosity and make sure they actually work. I never saw the need to load lead bullets in 9mm cases .... it just doesn't make sense to me. When I load ammo, I want it to work well in all my guns chambered for the same cartridge. Further, I can load lead bullets in 38 Specials for the same cost and get much better performance.
 

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Do you find the Taurus TX22 worth owning?
Not to avoid the question but it would depend upon how one defined 'worth owning'.
I find mine to be lots of fun. I did not need it as there are Mk IIs, a Single Six, A S&W 41 and a S&W 17 here that I could shoot when I want to shoot a .22lr handgun, but I enjoy taking the TX out. I had a couple failure to feed issues in the first magazine of ammo that I shot, both worked fine when loaded into the second mag. Otherwise it has eaten Aguilla and Federal ammo fine so far. I probably have only shot a brick through it so far but to ME it is worth having, mine mostly lives in my truck so it will be available anytime I decide to shoot, I would be less likely to have a more valuable firearm riding all those miles without a better reason than 'because I can'.

Bruce
 
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