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I'm a LEO and always carry CCW off-duty. As a generalized response to the OP I would most likely take no action unless life is at risk. If I am with family my primary response would be to move them from harms way, unless life is at risk. If I am alone or with other off-duty LEOs I will be a witness until the situation dictates a different response. The number of possibilities in infinite so I do not want to say "never would I". However, I would prefer to avoid pushing a situation where only property or money is at stake and no one knows me from Adam.
 

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We appreciate the professional perspective. I think the people who were gung ho were simply forgetting or overlooking the infinite possibilities.


It will also be important for OP not to assume that another State's laws will be enforced in good faith :

New York


New Jersey

 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
I'm a LEO and always carry CCW off-duty. As a generalized response to the OP I would most likely take no action unless life is at risk. If I am with family my primary response would be to move them from harms way, unless life is at risk. If I am alone or with other off-duty LEOs I will be a witness until the situation dictates a different response. The number of possibilities in infinite so I do not want to say "never would I". However, I would prefer to avoid pushing a situation where only property or money is at stake and no one knows me from Adam.
Thank you all for the input. A lot of respect on this forum, and its the main reason I'm a member.
 

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Def a legitimate concern. I think the best move is not takin the bad guy out if you "might" can, but get in a position to where he can't take you out. Unless you are in a position to let would be victoms know you are not one of the bad guys, you could def put yourself in a position to appear to be with the badguy.
 

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What really worries me the most is if the need comes up for me to defend myself with my weapon, will someone else with a CCW mistake me for the one who is doing the shooting and not the defending, and then shoot me? There are a lot of CCW's out there and in a room of 200 people, there is bound to be 5 or 6 folks carrying. I often put myself in this scenario while eating out. I've almost come to the conclusion that I may not pull my weapon unless I absolutely must to defend myself or my family. I don't want it that way, but then again, I don't want to do something wrong, shoot the wrong person or have someone shoot me because they don't know what's going on. It all sounds so cut and dried. Get weapon, defend oneself. Wrong. Any situation involving flying bullets would be utter chaos.
It's a reasonable but unlikely. Most people don't CCW. Most people who CCW don't want to play hero or vigilante.

I do not know if I've ever heard of a CCW carrier shooting another CCW carrier while the second one was handling a problem. It's probably happened.

I'm more concerned about an active shooting where the active shooter saw an Open Carry person then decided to shoot them as a preventative measure.
 

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The people who ought to worry are Open Carry people who let themselves get distracted. When you're open carrying a firearm you are a target. People notice you. The bad people notice you in a bad way. Those of us who train to think like bad people get away from you.

Usually the distracted ones are young men who chose to open carry. They have children with them. Where I live I have never seen a woman open carry.

In one really bad case we were in a Wal-Mart. Wal-Marts are high traffic, low cover but decent concealability.

Our Hero was a guy who was pushing a baby carriage and chattering away on a cell phone. He had a Glock in a behind the hip holster, right hand side. Our friend had his cell phone in his right hand. People do not normally train to drop the phone and draw. I don't know what phone etiquette is with kids today. I was trained to act indignant when I'm interrupted while on the phone - definitely a weakness.

I was not using a shopping cart. I was four feet behind him for about a minute. I then walked around him on his right hand side. I could have reached out and touched his firearm. He had on a decent holster, so I could not tap his mag release or just tap the trigger. An AD in a holster probably would cause the firearm to fly out of the holster, probably startle him and possibly strike him in the buttock.

I definitely could have stuck him with a screw driver (available in hardware). I've been stabbed, it's painful and induces a sort of shock. Odds are if I stab him I got his Glock. Do I want his Glock? I bought my own, at home in a my locker. I don't want his Glock. If I were a bad person? I might want his Glock.

When I see an Open Carry person I get away from them. I figure while they're getting creamed I can crawl away. I'm not responsible for people who ask for trouble. To me, Open Carry in a public place is asking for trouble.
 

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Been thinking of this a lot lately too, after a recent experience.

But this really has me thinking more about scenarios and actions. I keeping coming to the same conclusion = I'm not a cop and I will try to avoid confrontation until MY life is in danger.
I feel the same way. What is not my business is not my concern. In most places you have to demonstrate what is known as "reasonable fear". Helps your case a lot in most places if you're not seen as starting the problem.

Mike Drejka is in prison for the manslaughter of Markeis McGlockton. Drejka started an argument about.... a handicapped parking spot. Markeis's lady friend and Mother of his kids had parked in the handicapped spot.

Here is the video. At 0:55 Drejka shows up. After some seconds he bails out of his car. Mike walks over to the SUV parked in a handicapped spot. Starts to run his mouth.

Bystanders are noticing Mike, which means that he is making a scene. Markeis shows up at 2:48. He shoves Mike. Mike rolls up, draws and aims. Markeis backs up fast. Mike shoots him anyhow. Markeiss's kids lost their Daddy, Mike will lose twenty years of his life, if he can avoid dying in prison. Someone tried to break his head last year.

Over what? A handicapped parking spot, something that was in no way Mike's concern.


 

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There are infinite possibilities, but the statistics have been that CCW permit holders are less likely to commit crimes than LEOs
And also other gun related issues. It's in the less than 1-< 5%.
 

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Texas has had licensed open carry for a few years now
I've yet to see anyone, other than LEO'S and security guards open carry.
Why bring attention to yourself?
If I did open carry, I would be more concerned with someone loudly saying " he has a gun", and sending others into a panic.
 

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Texas has had licensed open carry for a few years now
I've yet to see anyone, other than LEO'S and security guards open carry.
Why bring attention to yourself?
If I did open carry, I would be more concerned with someone loudly saying " he has a gun", and sending others into a panic.
I've open carried for 11 years in the most populated county in Michigan, which includes Detroit.
Never has anybody shouted about a gun a people going into a panic. That is the garbage the TV set puts into folks heads.
I've carried since 1994 but never had the never to OC until 2010.
Most people have no clue I have a full size gun on my hip and the few that do notice will thank me for exercising OUR rights.

These days I probably OC 50% of the time I'm away from the house. If I have to dress up for a meeting at a customers location, I'll conceal, but when on my own time, I'll OC just because its easier to access without having to move a shirt out if the way (I have a bad shoulder on my weak side).

Dress like you belong where you are at and don't act like an idiot and nobody will care.

Its the ding dongs wearing camp clothing in the middle of the city with long guns slung over their shoulder that gets people's attention (don't be that guy).

If you want to OC and its legal, have at it.
More people have had CC guns taken from them than OC guns (cops not included in that math). So don't let that myth fool you.
 

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I've open carried for 11 years in the most populated county in Michigan, which includes Detroit.
Never has anybody shouted about a gun a people going into a panic. That is the garbage the TV set puts into folks heads.
I've carried since 1994 but never had the never to OC until 2010.
Most people have no clue I have a full size gun on my hip and the few that do notice will thank me for exercising OUR rights.

These days I probably OC 50% of the time I'm away from the house. If I have to dress up for a meeting at a customers location, I'll conceal, but when on my own time, I'll OC just because its easier to access without having to move a shirt out if the way (I have a bad shoulder on my weak side).

Dress like you belong where you are at and don't act like an idiot and nobody will care.

Its the ding dongs wearing camp clothing in the middle of the city with long guns slung over their shoulder that gets people's attention (don't be that guy).

If you want to OC and its legal, have at it.
More people have had CC guns taken from them than OC guns (cops not included in that math). So don't let that myth fool you.
Over the years I've never had any problems with Open Carry either. Other than (IF you DIDN'T have a CCW), you had to be careful with your OPEN CARRY and that it wouldn't get accidently covered by the clothing you were wearing, like a long shirt or coat and couldn't be fully seen or only partially seen (then it was considered counseled) on your hip. With a CCW no worries. Open Carry has always been legal here. CCW needed a permit. Now, July 1st you won't need a permit anymore. New Law
 
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