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Saying only "I do not carry cash" might have also worked.
It may have, we'll never know. IMO, by mentioning the 9mm you gave them something else to think about. Two things you can never have enough of in a self defense situation are time and distance. Making them wonder if they really wanted to continue with their current course of action bought you a second, maybe two.

Had not considered that you never said you had a weapon, just a 9mm (could've been a tool, bolt, etc.) - absolute genius! Don't know if that was intentional, or just the way it came out, but if it were intentional, you deserve the "Clearest thinking under duress" Award of the year.

Somewhat disappointed that it took all the way to the second page of comments for someone to say, "Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six." :)
 

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Common sense law here in Arizona for such an occasion:


13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

B. This section does not apply to a person who:

1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.

2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.

C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.

D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.


What would I have done? Moved into a good defensive position (as you did) and simply told them 'No, no gas money'...then watched and waited for their response. Any hostile action on their part, I would have drawn my weapon and defended myself as necessary.
 

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Here in SC you would`ve technically committed a crime by brandishing the weapon. However, most LEO`s here wouldn`t have prosecuted you for doing it, giving the circumstance.

IMO, you did absolutely the right thing since you didn`t identify a weapon and didn`t escalate the situation. Had you pulled the weapon out it may have gone south in a hurry since there are idiots out there who would`ve felt obligated to call your bluff either from drugs or testosterone.

Unfortunately, there are people that would like to be given the excuse to pull their weapon and possibly shoot one of the miscreants, not really thinking of the possible consequences. If no weapons were found on them then you`d probably be looking at a murder or manslaughter charge.
 

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"All's well that ends well" comes to mind.

What is 'legal' and 'lawful' is not always so clear cut. Without speaking to your specific jurisdiction in Florida - but more broadly - most self defense laws rely on quite a bit of interpretation by LEOs, prosecutors, judge and jury.

Even in the example of the Arizona statutes posted earlier which are fairly straightforward... look how often "reasonable person" appears.

A 'reasonable person' is a lot like 'common sense'. No doubt it exists and it's name suggests it can be found anywhere and everywhere, but you'd be shocked how often it is absolutely nowhere to be found. One person's 'reasonable' is varies wildly from community to community and even person to person.

It sounds like the community at Rugerforums is in general agreeance that you were reasonable... of course we didn't have a professional liar (pardon me, lawyer) trying his best to convince us that what you did was wrong... we only heard your side of the story.

As for my two cents... I think a 'reasonable' person would be 'reasonably' frightened by two men "asking" for money in the very early AM hours, particularly in a remote location... Because it seems to me just a little unreasonable to be ATVing at midnight... without the foresight to have enough gas to get where you need to go.
 

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You were cautious and prudent; a word of advice: I your're solo, reconsider sleeping on a bench in a public place, next time the predators may be more stealthy and intelligent.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
You were cautious and prudent; a word of advice: I your're solo, reconsider sleeping on a bench in a public place, next time the predators may be more stealthy and intelligent.

This thread sort of died for a while.:thumbsup:

I will sleep at rest stops, camp behind churches, sometimes grave yards, just about anywhere, when I am out on a cross country motorcycle ride. This instance was the first time anybody except the Police has given me any concern. The Police typically just ask me to move along.
 

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It's against the Law to sleep on the public beaches in Florida, unless in a designated camping area,
want to know why.... It's not safe.
No sense being ignorant of the law , it's not a legal defense .
Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #50
It's against the Law to sleep on the public beaches in Florida, unless in a designated camping area,
want to know why.... It's not safe.
No sense being ignorant of the law , it's not a legal defense .
Gary
So let me see if I get this correct:confused:. If I was robbed the Police would write me a ticket for sleeping on the beach and figure I deserved it. Hmmm, OK.

I wasn't concerned in the least about the Police, when they shoot you most of the time you need it.

But thanks for your concern:cool:
 

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Well Done.
 

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I know this is an old thread but I just saw it and wanted to add my two cents.

I don't think it's usually wise to tell someone you are armed. But there are exceptions to every rule and this case might be one as it did result in the bad guys leaving.

I can't believe all the talk about getting in trouble with the law. What are the bad guys going to do? Go to the police and say you threatened them? That's never going to happen, and in any case it's their word against yours. The argument that you possibly broke some law is ludicrous.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
I can tell you in hindsight that when this happened to me, my brain was not thinking about the legalities involved.

A few also took me to task for "hobo camping". That made me smile a little, since I can not remember all the places I have done this without any issues. You learn when and where to do it. Come in late, leave early.
 

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