[C.C. Baxter]

Straight out of the box, OMs have a crisper and lighter trigger pull than NMs, however after a little bench time, all my NMs have trigger pulls that are just as good as OMs. It's not the transfer bar that causes a harsher trigger pull .... it's the way the factory sear notch is cut in the hammer.

ABNRGR, I paid $90 (tax included) for a NM Single-Six Convertible back in 1977. It is worth at least $500 today. Don't you think 5X is appreciation? A direct replacement (brand new Single-Six Convertible) has a MSRP of $799 so for the first few years, it will depreciate in value, then it will start to appreciate. In less than 5 years, a used NM will be worth more than it cost new. Guns are one of the very few mechanical devices that actually go up in value with age.

Some people just don't follow instructions and use procedures intended for other brands. This is true of all Ruger Old model Single-Sixes, Blackhawks, and Super Blackhawks where most owners use the old Colt SAA procedures with an empty chamber under the firing pin. If you look closely at an OM cylinder you will either see a firing pin groove or a non-recessed chamber and there is a very good reason, unique to Ruger OMs.

Here's a photo of some OM cylinders:

Note the top left cylinder. It is for a 45 Colt and the one below it is for a 45 ACP. Both have a firing pin groove. The next set of cylinders, just to the right of the 45 cal cylinders are for 357/38 Spec (top) and 9mm (bottom). These cylinders do not have a firing pin groove, however the case head is not recessed so it protrudes quite a bit. The next cylinders to the right are for 22 rimfire. The 22 LR cylinder (bottom) has a firing pin groove and the 22 Mag cylinder (top) does not. Seems there is always an exception and in this case, it's the 22 Mag cylinder that does not respond to the below technique. Last, the cylinder on the far right is for a 30 Carbine and it does have a firing pin groove.

So, what's the big deal with the firing pin groove or proud case head? It is Ruger's way of making it safe to carry all six chambers loaded. How? After loading all 6 chambers, pull the hammer back just far enough to clear the half cock notch then pull the trigger while easing the hammer fully forward. This will place the hammer in between chambers and because the fully forward hammer pushes the firing pin where it protrudes from the frame, the firing pin will lock the cylinder between case heads and prevent it from rotating. If the cylinder has a firing pin groove, the distance of the firing pin travel will keep the firing pin from touching the cylinder to prevent firing pin damage. OM cylinders without a firing pin groove will also lock the cylinder between case heads and because the firing pin has a forward limit in the frame, it will not touch the cylinder face. So, you end up with all six chambers loaded, the hammer fully forward, the cylinder locked between case heads. This is just as safe as using the Colt method, plus it allows all chambers to be loaded. If you want to test your OM, load it with 6 empty cases because it won't work without cases in the cylinder.

As for bluing .... many Old Models had very poor bluing jobs at the factory, and in time, the frames and loading gate turned a plum color. Collectors like defective products so "plum guns" tend to be worth more than those that were blued properly. Some of the early Old Models had a polished finish that looks very nice, but this only applied to a few years of production. OMs made after 1966 have the same blued finish as current New Models.

Clicks .... some people are infatuated with the clicks made when cocking the hammer. NMs have clicks too, only they are a couple short of an OM. The first OM click comes from the hammer safety notch. The second is from the hammer plunger releasing the cylinder latch. The third click is when the hammer passes the half cock notch, and finally, the fourth click is when the hammer locks into the full cock sear notch. NMs don't have a safety notch nor a half cock notch so you only get two clicks .... one from the hammer plunger and one from the full cock notch.

Safety .... NM Ruger SAs are the safest single-action revolver ever made by any company. Not only do they have a transfer bar to prevent at least three safety issues, they also are loaded with the hammer fully forward. This prevents "thumb slip" that can happen with an OM after loading, Further, the action is interlocked so the hammer cannot be cocked when the loading gate is open, and the loading gate cannot be opened when the hammer is cocked. Besides collector value, the NM design is my prime reason not to fire my Old Model SAs.

Just a couple replies:

#1: The transfer bar is another thing to move during the trigger pull. It is linked to the trigger, kind of like the series 80 linkage on a 1911. You're probably right that modern sears are cut for heavier pulls, but I can't recall ever testing a New Model that had a better trigger than an Old Model. Usually by considerable margin. That transfer bar is always there and always has to get moved as part of the trigger pull. It has inertia that is never going away.

#2: The Plum does look good, although I was referring to the polish. And today's bluing is terrible. There's almost no polish on the metal!

#3: I would NEVER load a single action revolver that way. When you lower the hammer right near the half cock notch, firstly you have a chance of breaking it off. I would always go to full cock prior to lowering. Secondly, when you lower the hammer in between notches, your bolt is grinding into the cylinder between the notches! The cylinder is unlocked and you're effectively locking it with your firing pin. With 357 models there's a lot of space between rims and a lot of opportunity for the cylinder to move between rims! You'll score a nice line into your unlocked cylinder with the bolt! You probably also aren't doing any favors to your firing pin with even a little rotational torque. If you have a molded holster (with fluted cylinder), your gun won't fit anymore because the cylinder is now out of alignment from where it is when it is locked.

Bottom line: Don't do this. This is silly. Load 5 like they have since 1873. Are you using your Ruger Blackhawk for self defense anyway? Five should be just fine for silhouettes, hunting, plinking, etc. I doubt Ruger ever referred to this method in their literature. They simply advise loading 5 with an Old Model. If you absolutely must load six, by all means just get a New Model. Your gun should always be carried with the cylinder locked normally by the bolt, not with the firing pin!

#4: The four clicks are indeed cool, but I agree, they are just cosmetic. The feature that I was referring to is the indexing detents between chambers while loading. With the new model, unfortunately, they are gone. When you open the gate, the cylinder just spins freely without the detent clicks to align the chambers like the SAA.

#5: Ruger Old Models (And Colt SAAs) are just as safe, if not safer. You only load five so there are no safety issues whatsoever. If you cowboy load, there's not even a worry with the "thumb slip" because your thumb would slip the hammer down on an empty chamber.

Both models are great but the Old Models are special. A 4 5/8s" Flattop from the 50s is superb. You just can't get that intangible "something" from a new one. Who cares about a 6th round? That's like lamenting the fact that a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO doesn't have cruise control. There's a reason that the Old Models are much more desirable and expensive today.

 

[SiGUNSMITH]

Howdy All ;

I might as well toss in my $ 0.02 worth....I was in college when the New Model Ruger
Single Actions replaced the Old Models in production. At this time, my carry guns were,
initially, a rather ratty 9mm Browning Hi Power, which I traded for even rattier WW2
vintage Colt 1911 that was a ' parts gun '. Both were fairly reliable, but I was never
really comfortable with carrying ' Cocked and Locked', and neither gun really gave
me a lot of confidence that I could count on them when the chips were down. But,
they were the only things I could afford.

Then, while at the range, I got a chance to handle and test shoot a Ruger Old Model
357 Blackhawk. Wow........ Nice........Yeah........ OK.

There was a Gun Shop in Sunnyvale, CA, called The Huntsman, and I was in there
a few weeks later with a friend, and in the display case was a big, blue, 7 1/2 "
barreled Ruger Blackhawk, with black walnut grips. I asked to take a look at it,
and the owner took it out for me. I checked it to make sure it was unloaded, and
was surprised to see the size of the chambers. " It this 44 Magnum ? "

" No, 45 Long Colt. With an extra cylinder - it also shoots 45 ACP. "

I looked at the top of the Barrel. It was inscribed ' Made in the 200th Year of
American Liberty ' - I felt like Tuco Ramirez in ' The Good, The Bad, and the
Ugly': "How Much ?"

" I'm asking $ 210.00 - it's used, but hardly fired- it's got the box and all the papers."
He hesitated a moment, and then added, " I might take two hundred "

I smiled at him. " No, $ 210.00 is good. Plus the Transfer Fee ?"

" No, I can cover that"

" No, I'll pay the fee. Ten day wait ?"

" Yeah. Sorry. "

" No problem." I reached into my pocket, pulled out my wallet, and said, "I have
Cash. " He smiled, and went to get the paperwork started.
And that was how I met Lady Liberty, which I owned for the next thirty years,

So, I started out on New Models, and have never owned an Old Model, with the
exception of some Old Army's . And, all my Single Actions are Stainless. So, the
quality of the Blueing doesn't matter to me, I don't care about the number of clicks.
And having six shots instead of five means that the one extra Zombie I'm able to shoot
after the Zombie Apocalypse might be the difference between life and undeath.......

After nearly 50 years of Ruger New Models, I still believe they are the best handguns
made anywhere. I have staked my life on them, and they have NEVER let me down.

SiGunsmith

 

[Corndog]

In todays world, with warnings on a cup of coffee, a New Model is safer for the masses.

You may think hot coffee isn’t dangerous, but it kills.

 

[C.C. Baxter]

In todays world, with warnings on a cup of coffee, a New Model is safer for the masses.

You may think hot coffee isn’t dangerous, but it kills.

I agree and this was probably the case in 1973 (50 years now, wow!) as well, otherwise Bill Ruger wouldn't have gone to the trouble of creating the new model. 4 click Rugers and Colts are more connoisseur guns than anything.

You have to know how to handle them and you have to appreciate their idiosyncrasies. Those that do absolutely love them, but I agree, they aren't for the masses.

 

[TonySA]

My wife walked by and saw me reading this post and gave me the look. Yes, dear, I appreciate the old model. I won't trade you in for a new model.

 

[Iowegan]

C.C.Baxter, You need to try one of my NM SAs. After I square up the sear notch and buff it to a chrome like finish, trigger pull will be a very crisp 2.5 lbs to 3 lbs with factory springs .... way smoother than even a factory OM. That said, I can buff out an OM sear and make it very crisp and lighter too, The transfer bar does not influence trigger pull more than a fraction of an ounce .... nothing you can feel or even measure. The next time you are playing with a NM, remove the transfer bar and test trigger pull weight and cocking pressure .... it will be exactly the same as when the transfer bar is installed.

You must know way more than Bill Ruger or the engineers that designed Old Model SAs because the firing pin groove was included in the very first models for exactly the reason I detailed above. Rather, I don't think you know much at all about a 3-screw if you think Ruger's technique is dangerous. If you stop and think about it .... when the firing pin is between case heads (half cock hammer position), the gun can't possibly shoot. As for indexing, it is very simple and way less dangerous than the "load one, skip one, load four technique. Why? Partly because adults have a problem counting to four when loading. When using the Ruger loading technique, and lower the hammer from the half cock position, the firing pin is NOT aligned with a primer so even if the hammer "thumb slips", the gun will not discharge. When using the Colt technique, you must full cock the hammer then ease it down. Here's where a thumb slip will cause a loud BANG because the firing pin is in line with a primer. Ruger got sued many times for accidental discharges due to thumb slips, mostly because the owners/shooters used the wrong loading technique. That's why the NM was designed to be loaded with the hammer fully forward.

Your number 5 in post 21 is way out of line. There are several known safety issues with Old Model SAs and your post only addresses one. What happens when you shoot a few rounds, cock the hammer, then change your mind and don't shoot again? The right answer is to reindex the cylinder to place a spent case under the firing pin. I wonder how many people even think about that??? Ruger OM hammers have a safety notch that breaks easily, yet the gun will still function. How many people know enough about an OM to test the safety notch? Not too many because I had several OMs come in my shop with broken safety notches and the owners didn't have a clue.

Carrying an OM with an empty chamber under the hammer may address one problem but it is not a complete fix. I have personal experience with this issue because my neighbor was tending to his horses and crossed a barbwire fence with his 357 Mag OM BH holstered and an empty cylinder under the hammer. The hammer snagged on the barbed wire and pulled the hammer back almost to full cock. Of course, this rotated the cylinder and placed a live round under the firing pin. When the snag released, the hammer sprung forward, broke off the safety notch, discharged, and blew off most of the man's right foot. The court ruled the gun was not a safe design and Ruger gave my neighbor a handsome settlement. I was commissioned (as a gun smith) to do an "autopsy" on the Blackhawk and found the piece of metal that broke off the safety notch. The proof was overwhelming in my neighbor's favor. There have been many other documented discharges when the chamber under the hammer was empty. These include thumb slip when cocking the hammer, getting the hammer snagged when walking through heavy brush, and fastening a seat belt in a vehicle .... probably even more that I don't know about.

BTW, Ruger created the New Model SAs not out of the kindness of their heart but because they were forced to. A court order from a lawsuit forced Ruger to either get out of the SA business or redesign the gun to fix the known safety issues. Along with the new design, Ruger was also forced to recall all Old Models and install a transfer bar kit, free of charge. This cost Ruger millions of dollars and is still valid today, some 50 years after the fact.

So, before you spout off about Ruger's OM loading technique, do your homework and learn how they operate.

 

[rclark]

The proof was overwhelming in my neighbor's favor.

Still (to me) it seems just like an unfortunate accident. Things like this happen occasionally. And things break. Metal fatigues... A Ruger rep didn't come over and pull that hammer back that I can see. Blame the fence . But I get it, some people have got to blame someone or something and companies with deep pockets are a good lawyer target for 'money'. Hence the New Models. Don't get me wrong I like my (Tuned) New Models, but see nothing wrong with the Old Models either. I can't say one is better than the other ... but I sure like the clicks of my ROAs, and my Colt clones....

 

[Armybrat]

In todays world, with warnings on a cup of coffee, a New Model is safer for the masses.

You may think hot coffee isn’t dangerous, but it kills.

Well, the “warnings” on my NM BH and NV are on the bottom of the barrel. So the masses could still shoot themselves in their feet.

 

[Iowegan]

rclark, It wasn't "just another accident", it was/is a defective hammer design. Ruger OM factory SAs are known for breaking the hammer's safety notch because the hammers are very hard and brittle and because the safety notch is not strong enough. Back in the 70's, I kept a good stock of SA hammers in my shop because it was common for a customer to bring in a gun with a broken safety notch and because most owners didn't even know there was a safety notch, they just kept shooting the gun. The way it is supposed to work is .... if the hammer is released accidentally, it will spring forward and get caught by the safety notch, which stops the hammer and prevents the gun from firing. Further, the safety notch is supposed to provide a condition where a bumped hammer won't strike a live round when it is placed in the "safe" position. In reality, the shape of the safety notch makes it weak and prone to breakage. Below is a picture of a set of hammers. The New Model hammer on the right and the Transfer Bar conversion hammer in the center don't have a safety notch. The left hammer is a standard Old Model factory hammer and if you look closely, you can see the small safety notch (upper notch), located on the black part. Not only is the safety notch a weak part, but the trigger extension also wedges in the notch and makes it break. You can see the trigger extension in the left photo. It sometimes breaks but usually it will wedge in the hammer's safety notch and break the notch. So, besides unsafe loading and handling techniques, the defective hammer design makes an OM a dangerous gun. This has been proven in courts across the land and Ruger has paid dearly in settlements for the poor hammer design.

 

[C.C. Baxter]

C.C.Baxter, You need to try one of my NM SAs. After I square up the sear notch and buff it to a chrome like finish, trigger pull will be a very crisp 2.5 lbs to 3 lbs with factory springs .... way smoother than even a factory OM. That said, I can buff out an OM sear and make it very crisp and lighter too, The transfer bar does not influence trigger pull more than a fraction of an ounce .... nothing you can feel or even measure. The next time you are playing with a NM, remove the transfer bar and test trigger pull weight and cocking pressure .... it will be exactly the same as when the transfer bar is installed.

You must know way more than Bill Ruger or the engineers that designed Old Model SAs because the firing pin groove was included in the very first models for exactly the reason I detailed above. Rather, I don't think you know much at all about a 3-screw if you think Ruger's technique is dangerous. If you stop and think about it .... when the firing pin is between case heads (half cock hammer position), the gun can't possibly shoot. As for indexing, it is very simple and way less dangerous than the "load one, skip one, load four technique. Why? Partly because adults have a problem counting to four when loading. When using the Ruger loading technique, and lower the hammer from the half cock position, the firing pin is NOT aligned with a primer so even if the hammer "thumb slips", the gun will not discharge. When using the Colt technique, you must full cock the hammer then ease it down. Here's where a thumb slip will cause a loud BANG because the firing pin is in line with a primer. Ruger got sued many times for accidental discharges due to thumb slips, mostly because the owners/shooters used the wrong loading technique. That's why the NM was designed to be loaded with the hammer fully forward.

Your number 5 in post 21 is way out of line. There are several known safety issues with Old Model SAs and your post only addresses one. What happens when you shoot a few rounds, cock the hammer, then change your mind and don't shoot again? The right answer is to reindex the cylinder to place a spent case under the firing pin. I wonder how many people even think about that??? Ruger OM hammers have a safety notch that breaks easily, yet the gun will still function. How many people know enough about an OM to test the safety notch? Not too many because I had several OMs come in my shop with broken safety notches and the owners didn't have a clue.

Carrying an OM with an empty chamber under the hammer may address one problem but it is not a complete fix. I have personal experience with this issue because my neighbor was tending to his horses and crossed a barbwire fence with his 357 Mag OM BH holstered and an empty cylinder under the hammer. The hammer snagged on the barbed wire and pulled the hammer back almost to full cock. Of course, this rotated the cylinder and placed a live round under the firing pin. When the snag released, the hammer sprung forward, broke off the safety notch, discharged, and blew off most of the man's right foot. The court ruled the gun was not a safe design and Ruger gave my neighbor a handsome settlement. I was commissioned (as a gun smith) to do an "autopsy" on the Blackhawk and found the piece of metal that broke off the safety notch. The proof was overwhelming in my neighbor's favor. There have been many other documented discharges when the chamber under the hammer was empty. These include thumb slip when cocking the hammer, getting the hammer snagged when walking through heavy brush, and fastening a seat belt in a vehicle .... probably even more that I don't know about.

BTW, Ruger created the New Model SAs not out of the kindness of their heart but because they were forced to. A court order from a lawsuit forced Ruger to either get out of the SA business or redesign the gun to fix the known safety issues. Along with the new design, Ruger was also forced to recall all Old Models and install a transfer bar kit, free of charge. This cost Ruger millions of dollars and is still valid today, some 50 years after the fact.

So, before you spout off about Ruger's OM loading technique, do your homework and learn how they operate.

I don't think you were understanding what I said: I didn't say that using your firing pin to lock the gun was "unsafe." It's just silly! You'll scratch up your cylinder with the bolt and probably damage your firing pin. You're using your firing pin to lock up the gun rather than the bolt. I don't think this is "Ruger's method." I've never seen anywhere that Ruger recommends doing this.

I don't doubt at all that your NM's have good triggers. Like I said, they are good guns. I also said OM's are connoisseur guns. They need to be handled by people that know what they are doing. But dumbing them down is something that thankfully Colt has never done, probably because they would lose their core market customer! This is why you see OM's on auction sites today make sure they specify "Not converted." That automatically makes then more valuable.

I wasn't "spouting" off about anything. Like I said, Ruger I highly doubt ever recommending something so silly as using your firing pin to lock up your gun between chambers! I was just typing out the mechanics of the bad things that happen to the gun when you do that. Nothing I described about the mechanics of doing that is incorrect. Ruger's OM loading technique is to load 5. I still have the old user manuals from some of my OM's and it specifically states this, not "lower the hammer between chambers."

 

[C.C. Baxter]

Well, the “warnings” on my NM BH and NV are on the bottom of the barrel. So the masses could still shoot themselves in their feet.


View attachment 191399
View attachment 191400

Yes this is one more reason that OM's are more desired. "Pre-warning" guns are now a thing in sales as well. Yeesh they did start defacing their barrels a lot in the 70s I believe." I'm surprised they didn't just write "don't point at your head and pull the trigger."

 

[C.C. Baxter]

rclark, It wasn't "just another accident", it was/is a defective hammer design. Ruger OM factory SAs are known for breaking the hammer's safety notch because the hammers are very hard and brittle and because the safety notch is not strong enough. Back in the 70's, I kept a good stock of SA hammers in my shop because it was common for a customer to bring in a gun with a broken safety notch and because most owners didn't even know there was a safety notch, they just kept shooting the gun. The way it is supposed to work is .... if the hammer is released accidentally, it will spring forward and get caught by the safety notch, which stops the hammer and prevents the gun from firing. Further, the safety notch is supposed to provide a condition where a bumped hammer won't strike a live round when it is placed in the "safe" position. In reality, the shape of the safety notch makes it weak and prone to breakage. Below is a picture of a set of hammers. The New Model hammer on the right and the Transfer Bar conversion hammer in the center don't have a safety notch. The left hammer is a standard Old Model factory hammer and if you look closely, you can see the small safety notch (upper notch), located on the black part. Not only is the safety notch a weak part, but the trigger extension also wedges in the notch and makes it break. You can see the trigger extension in the left photo. It sometimes breaks but usually it will wedge in the hammer's safety notch and break the notch. So, besides unsafe loading and handling techniques, the defective hammer design makes an OM a dangerous gun. This has been proven in courts across the land and Ruger has paid dearly in settlements for the poor hammer design.

This is why the safety notch is never used on Colts or OM Rugers. It's not really even Ruger's design. It's Colt's design from the Single Action Army. This has been known since 1873 and it's why you simply carry the gun with 5. You are correct, one should never rely on the safety notch at all.

Colt, Pietta, Standard Mfg, etc. still make this design in 2023. We are having 150 year celebrations for it! They aren't sued or anything for it. It's not "dangerous" anymore than a Model 94 with a half cock safety. You just have to know how to handle it.

 

[Electrod47]

Since the mid-70's I have owned every Ruger 3 screw there were. Currently down to 2. I did a little fast draw and trick hip shootin' with a BH .357 6" in my youth for years. The advent of the transfer bar shocked me at the time because of the detriment it did to "gun feel". Resisted even owning a transfer bar. Over the years I saw the wisdom of the whole thing. And have it on my remaining 3 screws with the following advise. Wolff springs and a little genteel honing/polishing make my transfer bar 3 screws feel no different than a rig without. Had one of my old pals over at my home range " A NO transfer bar on my gun "kinda guy. We were shooting and I said feel the action on this 1967 .357 3 screw. Oh this is great! he says. I said look at it closely. He couldn't believe it, when he saw the transfer bar.
I wonder if Uberti has had lawyers chasing them these days? I have a El Patron short stroke for mounted shooting in 45LC and I swear the trigger pull on that gun! I take a deep breathe and it goes off. At age 76 I need to be careful.
PS: Somebody called the info offered so far as Epic. I have received answers to questions here I'v pondered for decades. Thank You!!

 

[Druban]

@Iowegan - if the safety notch is broken off on an OM SBH hammer, will there be any indication when cocking it, like perhaps only 3 clicks?

 

[Iowegan]

Durban, Yes there are actually two indications that the safety notch is broken. The first is like you said .... no first click. The second is more obvious because the trigger extends farther forward. People that don't know much about guns tend to ignore these indications and just keep shooting.

 

[Druban]

Durban, Yes there are actually two indications that the safety notch is broken. The first is like you said .... no first click. The second is more obvious because the trigger extends farther forward. People that don't know much about guns tend to ignore these indications and just keep shooting.

Invaluable information, I may have been very close to buying an SBH but I felt the trigger was oddly far forward and I didn’t … now I know

 

[Druban]

This is why the safety notch is never used on Colts or OM Rugers. It's not really even Ruger's design. It's Colt's design from the Single Action Army. This has been known since 1873 and it's why you simply carry the gun with 5. You are correct, one should never rely on the safety notch at all.

Colt, Pietta, Standard Mfg, etc. still make this design in 2023. We are having 150 year celebrations for it! They aren't sued or anything for it. It's not "dangerous" anymore than a Model 94 with a half cock safety. You just have to know how to handle it.

Many of those Italian ‘replicas’ have hammer safeties added so they’re not quite SAA accurate any more.
I particularly like the Cimarron 44 Bad Boy that has a very discreet firing pin disconnect. If I can’t get the OM SBH I’m chasing I might go for that gun it’s a beauty

 

[C.C. Baxter]

Many of those Italian ‘replicas’ have hammer safeties added so they’re not quite SAA accurate any more.
I particularly like the Cimarron 44 Bad Boy that has a very discreet firing pin disconnect. If I can’t get the OM SBH I’m chasing I might go for that gun it’s a besuty

Yes the Ubertis now have a floating firing pin system. They didn't want to go to a transfer bar which would visually kill the look of the SAA, so they concocted some type of floating firing pin linkage. I have no doubt that this has led to an increase in Pietta's sales, as they continue to be true to the original SAA design.

 

[Iowegan]

Several years ago, I bought a new Beretta Stampede. It is about as close to a Colt SAA as you can get with one exception .... it has a transfer bar exactly like a NM Ruger.
Here's my 45 Colt Stampede:

 

[rclark]

Many of those Italian ‘replicas’ have hammer safeties added so they’re not quite SAA accurate any more.

Yep. So it goes. But at least when you cock it, it 'looks' the same. Same with the long cylinder base pin safety. And if one wanted to, could cut down the pin to eliminate the pin safety. I won't buy the frame mounted firing pin models just because I 'feel' a Model P replica should have a hammer mounted firing pin. Just me though . I got modern Ruger SAs for the frame style.