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I was just watching a hunting show and I saw a commercial for the Winchester M70, and I saw that they have a 1" guarantee for the M70. Now I have always liked the look and feel of the Ruger M77 a little more than the M70, but now that 1" guarantee just leveled the playing field a bit. So, if I, a Ruger lover, am swayed more towards the M70, what is the non-biased hunter thinking? I think it is time for an accuracy guarantee out of Ruger or they may lose some business. They're both very similar with the quality of the stocks, CRF actions, and 3-position wing safeties, but Winchester seems to break away a little with a 1" accuracy guarantee

What do you guys think?
 

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I think that guaranteeing 1" groups is a marketing ploy with a hunting rifle.
I see people at the range almost every time there are more that two of us out there who couldn't shoot a 1" group with a finely tuned varmint rifle. There are just a lot of people who can't shoot that well. I also think today most off the shelf rifles will shoot 1" groups. Rifles are a lot more accurate than they were 30 years ago when we struggled to wring 1" out of anything but a finely tuned varmint rifle?
Frank
 

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Hi,
I have a Ruger #1 H1 Tropical .375H&H for the fun, it's very accuracy and pleasant to shoot .... and to look at.
AND I have a Winchester Mod 70 Safari Express .375 H&H : exceptional accuracy !
Very well finished, MOA trigger, three positions for security, very smooth action .
I prefer the look of this Winch , the new Ruger M77 is too different than THE M77 MK2 RMS.
This Winch is a true "africa hunting style".
 

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My M77 shoots to 3/4" with the right handload. I suspect you can get decent accuracy out of any modern rifle if you work your loads right.
 

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Weatherby has been advertising that for several years now. It's a crock ! I know guys who couldn't shoot a 1" group at 25 yards with a target rifle ! To be completely truthful with you, I've NEVER owned a rifle that would not shoot 1" with the right loads, if you do your part ! Even my 1903A3 will punch the holes right in the center, & it is most certainly not a target rifle ! I think I paid $29.95 for it in the 1950's.
 

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Where is it written that you must have a 1 MOA rifle for big game hunting, anyway? I think we sometimes get hung up a bit too much on this one, single aspect of a rifle. Okay, if you're taking head shots at prairie dogs at 300 yards, sure, that kind of accuracy is useful, but for deer at 100 yards, even 200 yards? I agree, I think it is just marketing baloney pandering to the folks that think they need it to be a successful hunter. I'd guess that most of the deer shot up here in the north woods have been shot with rifles that have never printed a 1" group at 100 yards, not to mention folks that couldn't print a 1" group at 100 yards, anyway.
 

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I have said for years that especially in a hunting rifle a symmetrical group is almost as important as a very tight group. We need to remember if we have a 2-1/2" group & it's symmetrical, the bullet fartherest away from your point of aim is 1-1/4". Of course this is compounded as range increases, but most of us shouldn't be shooting at a game animal much past 300 yards, & probably only with a rest beyond 100 yards.

Still, I think most factory rifles today are capable of 1" groups at 100 yards with good ammo & most factory ammo today is VERY good.
Frank
 

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I love my Winchesters but I also love Rugers, FNH's, Brownings, Savages, Remingtons, Marlins, Weatherby's, Sako's, Howa's and on & on! I just love guns! With that said, any of the larger manufacturers can easily make the very same guarantee. If Winchester really wanted to impress me personally they'd guarantee the M70 to be more or even as accurate as a Savage! Then they'd have my attention for sure! Any off the shelf gun can print 1" groups from the 100 yd line shooting from a rest with the right optic & weather conditions. This is merely a sales tactic for the underinformed. If you own a Ruger M77 it can and will print 1" groups with favorable conditions as will any of the above mentioned brands. My Savages are by far my most accurate rifles and they're cheaper than either the M70 or M77 so I see this "sales gimmic" as a moot point! If your rifle isn't printing 1" groups then look to your ammo or get a Caldwell lead sled because the rifle is capable it's the ammo or the shooter that sometimes aren't.
 

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Hello again,
I beg your pardon, I'm french, not yet fluent in english.... but I try.
1- MOA : Minute of Angle
2 - Winchester MOA : name of the trigger mechanism for Winchester Mod. 70

In 2012 , I think all GOOD rifle can get THE MOA (1) ... if the shooter is not too "bad" ... and not hunting ... Hunt it's so different.
My opinion (dream) first rifle RUGER M77MKII RSM , old fashion ! I dislike the new Hawkeye. But Ruger doesn't make this rifle today... so second rifle the "recent" Winchester Mod 70 Safari Express. ("Pre 64 style", MOA(2)) ["rifleman's rifle" ... as they say]
I confirm this rifle is highly accurate ... until ... the possibilities of the cartridge and the shooter, max 200 . 1" at 100 that's true ... like others. With my Ruger #1 Tropical .375 H&H I can get the same score !!! Nevertheless, they are not "rifles" to compete, hunt or fun shoot only...
 

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I forgot : ... my guns
Ruger MKII .22 LR
Colt Mod 1911 70 series .45ACP
Ruger #1 Tropical .375 H&H quick release scope Hawke 1.25-4.5 x24
Ruger Mini14 Ranch .222Rem scope 6x32 Brand ?? unknowed now.
CZ 550 Synthetic 9.3x62 quick release scope Leupold Var II 3-9x40
Howa 1500 .270WM quick release scope Bushnell Legend 4-12x40 paralaxe
Winch 70 Safari Express .375 H&H
Arthemis Sylah San (Turkey) "over & under" 12 gauge Red Dot (maker for Mossberg ...)
 

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The MOA guarantee-It is silly due to the shooter and loads. I like the idea that a target is with the new gun showing that the gun has shot a 1" group. This will eliminate a lot of problems that the gun companies may face with accuracy statements. They could reply, "Well the gun did shoot a 1" group at the factory, what could be the problem now?"
 

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I can shoot 1 minute of angle if everything is perfect but my eyes even with strong trifocals are still not what they were 25 years ago so for me it would be a waste of time.
 

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The MOA guarantee-It is silly due to the shooter and loads. I like the idea that a target is with the new gun showing that the gun has shot a 1" group. This will eliminate a lot of problems that the gun companies may face with accuracy statements. They could reply, "Well the gun did shoot a 1" group at the factory, what could be the problem now?"
I agree with this post that the rifle company is verifying that the new rifle can shoot a one inch group at the factory shows that it met a quality control check at the factory. It would be nice if all firearms included a test target fired at the factory with them. I have bought Anschutz and CZ rifles which had factory test targets in the box, but no other brands I have purchased had them.
 

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I think there's no question that the 'accuracy guarantee' from any rifle vendor is a marketing tactic. Whether most people realize it or not, warranties on cars are exactly the same thing. I think the question is: Does the tactic work well enough to try/do it, and what does it cost?

I know my Ruger Hawkeye will shoot 3 shots into 1" or less off the bench, because I've done that with it before. Unfortunately, it won't do it now without some 'help.' The stock is pulling sideways, you see, and the forend pressure is all messed up. I can stuff a business card or something into the forend (which is flexible enough to just pull out of the way even with all action screws tight), and that helps a whole lot. Too, I haven't bought any more of the nearly-$40/box Remington Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded ammo to try to re-create the itty bitty groups.

So, to me, I don't think Ruger needs the marketing ploy of an 'accuracy guarantee' of itself. What I would like to see is a beefier forend (more like the M77 MKII?) and the use of the specially processed wood like that which Browning used on a limited run of a couple of guns at this past year's SHOT show. It's almost impervious to moisture absorbtion or dimensional changes from moisture.
 

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I don't know.

I like the Controlled Round Feed of the Ruger. No clue about the Winnie.

Ruger does have a guarantee of sorts. They say the rifle should work for its intended purpose.

For an example, for a 30-06, a 300 yard rifle, I would estimate that a 6" kill zone would work for almost anyone and any game. That means that a 30-06 ought to have a 2MOA or better accuracy. A .204 Ruger being a varmint rifle should be more accurate than that to be usable on a prairie dog size target.

So to me the Winnie claim is just marketing and frankly does nothing practical except add to the cost of manufacture. Who cares?
 

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Oh, I forgot the most important thing!!

I MUCH PREFER TO HAVE A SMOOTH, EASY-CLEANING BARREL THAN A 'PHONY GUARANTEE.' Some of the brands with really great reputations for accuracy supply some of the very worst barrels on the market in terms of fouling, roughness, and therefore number of shots I can go before I have to spend half the day with my Foul-Out or some KG-12 to get rid of the copper. Sure they shoot really great for the first 5 - 50 rounds, but then they're a disaster and it takes FOREVER to get them clean. All the new Rugers I've had or know of have very nice barrel interiors.
 

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I agree that Ruger Barrels clean supremely easy, and don't need a ploy to sell; especially at half the price....
How is that Savage barrel working for you MZ, STILL cleaning it are you?:D:D
 

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My M77 270WSM is a 1/2-3/4" shooter with my handloads, My Hawkeye in 35 Whelen is about 1 1/2"-2" and man did I have to do some significant load development to find that load without going to premium bullets. The Winchester's being made by FN sure are nice, but the Ruger still costs 1/2 of what the M70 does.
 
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