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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
About thirty years ago when I was in the Army we used to zero our weapons at 25 meters and then engage targets out to 300 meters to qualify. Can I zero my Mini 14 at 25 meters and expect to hit a 2'x3' sized target at 300 meters? How do you guys do it?
 

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You could use a tool such as here ShootersCalculator.com
To find two points on a trajectory where the crosses the sight line.
For example when plugged in .233 with 55grain and with a 25 yard zero it shows a zero also at about 250 yards with about a 3" high hold to hit a target at 300 yards.
Of course the more data you enter hat matches what you are shooting, scope mount height etc the better the data will be.
 

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I assume this was with an M16? Maybe an A2? If so, they had elevation adjustments with ranges marked clearly. Anyway, I can explain the process I was taught with the M16A2. The rear sight is set at 300 yards, and the target is 36 yards away. You then dial in the front sight to get on target. This setting is then confirmed, accounting for wind, on the 300 yard range.

However, that rear sight had 100, 200, 300, and 500 yard increments called out (if my memory serves). So when changing distances, you dialed the sight to the proper one. So while it may have a 300-yard zero, it should still hit (fairly) accurately at 100 yards or 500 yards when the rear sight is adjusted to those distances. You aren't using holdovers or kentucky windage or anything.

I do not have a Mini-14. However in looking at pictures, it does not appear to have such a sight. It seems to be one where you simply have one zero at a known distance, and depending on what distance you chose affects how far off it is at other distances. That said, I would think a 25 yard zero would have you within 1.5' at 300 yards? But it might depend on the ammo chosen, how tight your zero at 25 yards was (an inch either way might have a large effect at 300).

If you used an A1, I believe they were only windage adjustable on the rear, so my description above might not make any sense...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I assume this was with an M16? Maybe an A2? If so, they had elevation adjustments with ranges marked clearly. Anyway, I can explain the process I was taught with the M16A2. The rear sight is set at 300 yards, and the target is 36 yards away. You then dial in the front sight to get on target. This setting is then confirmed, accounting for wind, on the 300 yard range.

However, that rear sight had 100, 200, 300, and 500 yard increments called out (if my memory serves). So when changing distances, you dialed the sight to the proper one. So while it may have a 300-yard zero, it should still hit (fairly) accurately at 100 yards or 500 yards when the rear sight is adjusted to those distances. You aren't using holdovers or kentucky windage or anything.

I do not have a Mini-14. However in looking at pictures, it does not appear to have such a sight. It seems to be one where you simply have one zero at a known distance, and depending on what distance you chose affects how far off it is at other distances. That said, I would think a 25 yard zero would have you within 1.5' at 300 yards? But it might depend on the ammo chosen, how tight your zero at 25 yards was (an inch either way might have a large effect at 300).

If you used an A1, I believe they were only windage adjustable on the rear, so my description above might not make any sense...
Actually, it was an M16A1 that I was issued. The A2s were being issued in the States about the time I went to Germany. I got out before they were issued there.
 

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Actually, it was an M16A1 that I was issued. The A2s were being issued in the States about the time I went to Germany. I got out before they were issued there.
Ok, then my post might not have been helpful. If you want your mini zero'd for 300 using a shorter range, you'd probably need to calculate it. The height of the sights over the bore is a lot more on an M16 than on a mini, which will affect that.
 

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FRG, M16A1 to A2 swaps, and late 1980's Ballistics

Actually, it was an M16A1 that I was issued. The A2s were being issued in the States about the time I went to Germany. I got out before they were issued there.
I commanded an engineer company in 8th ID in 1988 when we converted to A2's at GRAF.
The less we worried about "adjusting sights" the better. Get your 25M zero, then the bullet is high on it's way past 100, 150, 200 M, and back to dead on elevation wise at 250M.
My driver and I out-shot the Brits with their FN-FALS at 800M after we got our A2's! It was funny to hear them cussing us for hitting their knock-down targets.
Essayons!
 

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I assume this was with an M16? Maybe an A2? If so, they had elevation adjustments with ranges marked clearly. Anyway, I can explain the process I was taught with the M16A2. The rear sight is set at 300 yards, and the target is 36 yards away. You then dial in the front sight to get on target. This setting is then confirmed, accounting for wind, on the 300 yard range.

However, that rear sight had 100, 200, 300, and 500 yard increments called out (if my memory serves). So when changing distances, you dialed the sight to the proper one. So while it may have a 300-yard zero, it should still hit (fairly) accurately at 100 yards or 500 yards when the rear sight is adjusted to those distances. You aren't using holdovers or kentucky windage or anything.

I do not have a Mini-14. However in looking at pictures, it does not appear to have such a sight. It seems to be one where you simply have one zero at a known distance, and depending on what distance you chose affects how far off it is at other distances. That said, I would think a 25 yard zero would have you within 1.5' at 300 yards? But it might depend on the ammo chosen, how tight your zero at 25 yards was (an inch either way might have a large effect at 300).

If you used an A1, I believe they were only windage adjustable on the rear, so my description above might not make any sense...
Watched a video the other day basically covering what you just posted. You mentioned 100-500 yards called out (yards or meters?) My rear sight has 6/3 on it, I was under the impression this is 300/600 meters, rotating the elevation there is a 4 and a 5 (then I assume on to 6 located at the 6/3).

Is there a way to adjust for the 100/200 yard(meter?) range? I zeroed the sights on with the rifle, front sight level at the base, lowered the rear all the way down then backing off to the first detent then adjusting the 6/3 to the mark on the left side and tightened the allen screw. Shot my 25 meter target, was 2" low and 2" to the right. Adjusted front sight down and adjust windage on rear. Got it dialed in.

How does doing that put that rear elevation on when it's already sitting on the 300 meter mark? Is it just to get you on target, and adjust from there?
 

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Watched a video the other day basically covering what you just posted. You mentioned 100-500 yards called out (yards or meters?) My rear sight has 6/3 on it, I was under the impression this is 300/600 meters, rotating the elevation there is a 4 and a 5 (then I assume on to 6 located at the 6/3).

Is there a way to adjust for the 100/200 yard(meter?) range?
Yeah, my memory is obviously off. I looked at the rifle marksmanship data book, and it looks to be 3,4,5,6,7, and 8 (which is also 3 but a full rotation). It calls for setting the sight to 8/3 - 2 (so two clicks down from 8/3 when set for 300 yards) for the 200 yard line shooting. So if you have a 200 yard range, you could try that to dial in the front sight the rest of the way. The book says the rear will only go about 3 clicks down from 8/3, so I doubt that's enough for a 100 yard zero.

If you want the elevation numbers to generally match up to distance, you kind of have no choice but to zero it at one of those known distances. I had the same issue with my SCAR, the sight goes down to 2, but I can't shoot anywhere further than 100 yards. So I basically took a guess with ballistic calculators and the height over bore and such. It's not ideal, but what can you do.

Also, yards and meters seem to be used interchangeably. Use the number to sight in on whichever your range is measured in. Considering the difference in drop for different ammo, the huge size of a target the front iron covers at any distance, etc, I doubt the difference from yards to meters will have much effect. And keep in mind when shooting at 200 yards or 300 yards to dial the sights in, you are supposed to adjust the rear for any windage calls, and then adjust any difference outside of that with the front sight dope. So if it's actually windy, you need to be fairly good with your wind calls or you will be adjusting too little or too much front sight.
 

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Follow the instruction booklet on how to adjust your mini sights. Adjust your sights to 1.5 inches high at 100 yds. and you should be right on at 200yds. At 300yds.you'll have to fiddle with it to see how much hold over it takes to be right on elevation wise. Don't mess with your sights for anything over the 200yd. zero,just get to know your rifle and where it hits at distance.
 

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You can sight your mini 14 at 25 yards and it will be on target again at around 250/300 yards. If you sight your mini 14 in at 25 yards it will be over 3 inches high at 100 yards. You can play with the rifle and see. There are to many variables to say yes your rifle will be dead on at 300 yards.

I have a M4 with sights about the same height as your mini 14. I sight my M4 in at 40 yards. Then I check the rifle at 100 yards. I set the sights so the gun shoots about an inch high at 100 yards. Sighting my M4 in at 40 yards it is over 2 inches high at 100 yards with 55 gr ammo.
 

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Yeah, my memory is obviously off. I looked at the rifle marksmanship data book, and it looks to be 3,4,5,6,7, and 8 (which is also 3 but a full rotation). It calls for setting the sight to 8/3 - 2 (so two clicks down from 8/3 when set for 300 yards) for the 200 yard line shooting. So if you have a 200 yard range, you could try that to dial in the front sight the rest of the way. The book says the rear will only go about 3 clicks down from 8/3, so I doubt that's enough for a 100 yard zero.

If you want the elevation numbers to generally match up to distance, you kind of have no choice but to zero it at one of those known distances. I had the same issue with my SCAR, the sight goes down to 2, but I can't shoot anywhere further than 100 yards. So I basically took a guess with ballistic calculators and the height over bore and such. It's not ideal, but what can you do.

Also, yards and meters seem to be used interchangeably. Use the number to sight in on whichever your range is measured in. Considering the difference in drop for different ammo, the huge size of a target the front iron covers at any distance, etc, I doubt the difference from yards to meters will have much effect. And keep in mind when shooting at 200 yards or 300 yards to dial the sights in, you are supposed to adjust the rear for any windage calls, and then adjust any difference outside of that with the front sight dope. So if it's actually windy, you need to be fairly good with your wind calls or you will be adjusting too little or too much front sight.
See, you mention an '8/3' rear sight. I don't know the particulars, but IIRC, the 8/3 rear sight was used on the longer barreled rifle, and the shelf of the sight, where the actual sight slides up and down is a bit shorter than the 6/3 rear sight. Also the 6/3 rear sight was used in conjunction with a taller 'F' marked A2 front sight.
 

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See, you mention an '8/3' rear sight. I don't know the particulars, but IIRC, the 8/3 rear sight was used on the longer barreled rifle, and the shelf of the sight, where the actual sight slides up and down is a bit shorter than the 6/3 rear sight. Also the 6/3 rear sight was used in conjunction with a taller 'F' marked A2 front sight.
The USMC only issued 20" M16A2's when I was there. I believe they still mainly issue 20" M16A4's now. I assume the carry handle rear sight has the same elevation markings, but in reality I have no idea. The front sight will likely be slighty different, though, as the detachable carry handle may be a little higher than the fixed carry handle of the A2. I thought the "F" front sight was for flat tops, but I really don't know that much about AR's.

If you have some AR that is a different configuration than what the military issues, then the specific military recommended way of zeroing it will not apply. If 3 is the lowest marking on the sight, then it may be tough to zero it properly at a range different than that. You can make some educated guesses about how high or low it should hit at other distances, but it's hard to know the exact velocity, exact drop, etc across a few hundred yards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I commanded an engineer company in 8th ID in 1988 when we converted to A2's at GRAF.
The less we worried about "adjusting sights" the better. Get your 25M zero, then the bullet is high on it's way past 100, 150, 200 M, and back to dead on elevation wise at 250M.
My driver and I out-shot the Brits with their FN-FALS at 800M after we got our A2's! It was funny to hear them cussing us for hitting their knock-down targets.
Essayons!
In '83 we helped build the new ranges for the Bradley and Abrahms there at Graf. Essayons!
 
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