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Better For Bear .357 or .45 LC

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102K views 75 replies 42 participants last post by  mooosie  
Ya we don't see many bear here in Alaska and thats why many carry a 357 loaded hot or a 10mm. Some how when the 357 was the stoutest pistol you could buy they did good service on bears ,brown or black. Like I said not many bears here so my info on what works is probably off. Also like I stated the Vaquero would not be first choice for hot loads.
Cm'on Will, I had a friend who's uncle's brother went on vacation in Alaska- he saw lots of bears and said a 44 Mag is minimum. The guide from Oregon said so.

;)
 
Btw jim, my post in jest wasn't aimed at you, fishing guides from Oregon are just an easy target ;)

SE AK has probably more bears than southcentral. Prince of Wales island is known for blacks, and Admiralty island has more browns per square mile than anywhere on earth.
 
I guess I'll be serious here, and give some info for what it's worth. Take it for what you paid for it. I've never shot a charging bear with a handgun. I've taken a Black with a .308, and was the backup shot on a Brown with a 35 Whelen. I've been bluff charged by a brown once, and scared several blacks away from me in the course of my day to day activities.

First thing to avoid a bad encounter with a bear, is understanding their behavior. (actually, the most foolproof way to avoid a bear is to have a bear tag, and it be in season)

1st- Brown Bears:

They VERY rarely see humans as food- only one case I can think of. They avoid humans if they know we are around. The two most common causes of Brown bear attacks are surprising the bear while it is close, and it feels threatened, and a sow protecting her cubs. When in brown bear country, pay attention to the wind, and make noise. I probably look silly, but I talk, whistle, or sing when walking alone where I know brown bears to be. Occasionally, I hear rustling running away from me. I keep my head on a swivel, and stop often to listen. I've seen cubs before, they make noise. I slowly backed up, and went back the way I came.

When attacked by a Brown bear, they are usually only attacking because they feel threatened. Don't scream, curl up in the fetal position, and don't fight back. They will eventually leave (my former Commanding Officer was attacked by a brown while checking his trap line 2 years ago- he did exactly this, and ended up mauled, but alive).

2nd- Black bears:

Black bears are usually very skittish, and will run at the sign of a human (unless they are acclimated to humans). They are, however, curious. They are known to follow hikers down the trail following the scent. Due to this, encounters may be more likely. They tend not to be as protective of their space as Brown bears. However, if a Black Bear is attacking you, he likely sees you as food. Fight back in any way possible (poke eyes, punch snout, etc). A black is less likely to give up until you are bear feces.


Killing them:

Weight of an animal means nothing. An 800 lb moose is very easy to kill. A 100 lb wolverine is not.

A brown bear has very thick fur and skin. Especially when wet, Brown bear fur can slow a bullet down a lot. When choosing a weapon to shoot a brown bear (in defense), you must choose a cartridge that can reach the central nervous system. A bear with a broken shoulder will still kill you. A bear with an exploded heart will still kill you- even if it dies shortly afterwords. Bears have a slow metabolism, and can still function after their lungs and heart stop working for a few minutes. Plenty long enough to still kill you.

Momentum is what reaches the CNS of a bear. Not energy. A heavy for caliber, wide meplat (flat nose) hard cast lead penetrates the deepest and straightest. Since you are aiming for the brain or spinal cord, accuracy is a must. Choose the biggest gun that you can hit a basketball bouncing at you at 35 mph. That caliber is different for all people. For me, I carry a 4" Redhawk in 45 Colt, loaded with 320 gr LFN cast going 1200 fps. This is a tier 3 handload. Some people are more competent with 10mm Glock 20's and some with 454 Casull or bigger.

A Black bear is a relatively thin skinned animal. It does not take as much momentum to reach the CNS of a Black bear. If you feel comfortable shooting a deer with it, it's probably ok for a black bear.

First and foremost is your ability to hit where you are aiming, and to have ready access to your weapon. If it is more then 1-2 seconds from going bang, you might as well not have it. Most bear encounters are that fast.
 
Wouldn't the .357 even with it's lighter weight penetrate further than a big slower moving .45 LC, both with standard loadings.
I know you guys think I'm "just not listening toy you", but that's not true at all. The truth is I am already getting this gun, the caliber is the only thing that's still up in the air here. This will be my most powerful handgun in my collection so far, and I don't have the finances to go buy multiple firearms and many different types of ammo, nor do I have the finances for reloading right now. I want something that is fun to shoot, great for self defense, and a caliber (one of the two) that can handle this "bear" job better than the other. I'm not looking for an end all caliber just one that has versatility.

Most of our bears are blacks, I'm really more likely to come across a hog than a bear, or crazy people than either of those other two. Like I said, I've been walking these woods my whole life and never crossed a bear, most of the time when I was much younger and only armed with a .22 once I was old enough to be trusted alone with one, before that I had a pocket knife and a stick. There are many people who live north of me by 100 miles in much heavier bear country than here, who have lived there for 40 years and besides friends stories, they don't believe there are really bears here because they have never seen one themselves. I'm not that oblivious dispite my usual "show me or your making it up" attitude to begin with.

One day I will probably get a "Bear Gun" strictly for protection, right now I'm looking for a do all within the parameters I described in my first post. My next gun may well be a leaver action in a matching caliber. After that I have four other handguns that will take me probably two years to acquire, then I can focus on a bigger gun even though it will probably spend 99% of it's life in the safe.

My first post in this thread stands. If you do not reload, the 357 is more practical. It will probably get shot more, as ammo is more plentiful and in the appropriate loading for your chosen Vaquero.

As far as weight and penetration, I've never tested heavy 45 Colt (standard pressure) vs 357. The concept of momentum is that a freight train moving 5 mph will go farther through a barrier than a motorcycle going 180 mph, even if the math says the motorcycle has more energy.
 
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