Did you read my post?? I went thru some information already for you!

 

Should have no trouble with this ammo.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=100

For deer hunting if you take it up try the Hornady XTP. Also shooting 125gr bullets in any 357 causes extra wear on forcing cones so stay with 140gr and up bullets.JMOFO

 

I'm looking at a Vaquero for my next purchase, in fact I want it so bad that it just jumped all my other guns on my must have list. I want this gun for paper and can decimation, but I also want to carry it while hiking in bear country and hogs are just as likely (other mean four legged critters and maybe a two legged if need be)....we are talking black/brown bear.

Most of our bears are blacks...

A bit confused here. Is this website inaccurate in saying ALL your bears are blacks? Arkansas Bears - Bears in Arkansas - Arkansas Wildlife

"Though relatively elusive, the American black bear - the only species of bear in Arkansas - ....."​

This is black bear American black bear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is brown bear Brown bear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To make the terminology confusing there are brown colored black bears (and other shades as well) but they are all still black bears, maybe that is what you meant by black/brown bear? Just trying to get to the bottom of what critter we're talking about here because the two are very different in both size and behavior.

 

Yes the black and also brown colored bear, sorry. Like I said, I have never even seen a bear with my own eyes just pictures and video.
My sister was deer hunting in December, when she crawled down from her deer stand armed only with a cross bow there was a black bear standing 30 yds from her. She moved across to the truck 150 yds away and the bear followed her all but the last 50 yds, she was terrified. I plan to hunt hog with them and I just want to be ready just in case, not to mention the other woods I walk in up north from me far more often which is considered real "bear country" with a far bigger bear per sq mile/acre than anywhere else in the state.

We also have hog and quite a few feral dog packs. We also have Mt Lion which the game and fish still denies for the most part just like they do in many states but I know people who have seen them and there have been game camera shots, although if one of those gets you you will likely not see it coming. We also have heard reports in the far north west corner of the state. To many wolf reports to ignore but not enough to be worried about game and fish denies these as well.

 

He's buying the gun for fun and as a last resort maybe protection from a soft and cuddly Arkansas black bear. Under that criteria any handgun will do the job, even a 22. Not well, but it's better than throwing rocks. If you want to hunt bear there are better choices but for your stated purposes I'd get a 357 Vaquero.

I have Vaqueros in both 357 and 45 Colt and I enjoy shooting the 45 Colt the most. However, I reload and you do not. The price, variety and availability of 357 ammo is much better than 45 Colt. Plus, you can shoot cheap target 38 spl ammo from a 357. There's no such alternative for the 45 Colt. Around here you can buy a 100 round box of 38spl FMJ or wadcutters for about $35. Any box of 45 Colt is gonna be about $40 for 50.

Six rounds of hot 357 self defense ammo is adequate protection from a 200-250lb bear. Maybe not ideal, but more than adequate. Besides, every black bear I've ever seen in the lower 48 outside of a national park will go running as soon as they become aware of you, especially when you're trying to hunt the darn things. I know mama bear will protect her cubs, etc, etc but in general there's not a whole lot of aggressive bears running around the central part of the U.S.

Buy a gun for it's intended purpose, not for how it might, some day, given the right circumstances be used. If you buy too much gun for plinking and horsing around on the off chance you might run into an aggressive bear someday you won't enjoy using the gun for the other 99.9% of the time. Get the 357.

 

What he said.

 

I think by this point we can all agree the ejector length New Vaquero in 357 will be best for OP's current needs. Load it up with stiff 180gr hardcast from Buffalo Bore or Cor Bon and you'll be fine. When funds allow and you have the ability to reload maybe consider the 45 Colt Redhawk or 454 Alaskan in the future. Either of those will offer the most power an average person will be able to control.

 

Not perfect but worked.
Grizzly Bear Shot and Killed By Hikers In Denali National Park and Preserve | National Parks Traveler - Page 4

 

Given the info and choices it sounds like the 357 would be the way to go, but I'd prefer a 44 or 454.

 

Yes that has been my finding too that the vaquero won't hold up to heavy rounds, but my understanding was that the New Vaquero also can't handle .357 either, maybe that was just the Birds Head models idk.

I just want to make clear that the New Vaquero .357 will handle ANY and ALL .357 SAAMI loads you put in it. Remember this was over built even back in '55 when the medium frame was introduced, and the New Vaquero is on the same frame. Look at the mass of steel around those 6 holes... Then compare to the .44Mag which runs at the same pressure ... See what I mean? And materials are probably better today than even then.... No that's a o' wives tale about the New Vaquero can't handle .357 loads.... The ONLY thing you MIGHT run into is loads with lots of mass in front of the case which may extend a bit beyond the cylinder and ty it up. Other than that you will have no worries about what you put in your .357 ( birds head or not... frame/cylinder is the same).

I'll pack my .45s. But that's just me.

 

Thank you everyone! I think I have decided on a Single Six.... Just Kidding.

 

I'd say .45 Colt...I wouldn't use a 'standard' load .45 Colt against a bear...I would make sure your revolver can handle something like these:

.45 Colt +P, 300-Grain Cast Performance Long Flat Nose Gas Checked, Box of 20, Nickel-Plated Brass

 

Theory is great, but field proven evidence is better. I've knocked down enough large animals - including bears, most of those species with handguns, to know what "will work in a pinch" and what I want to carry if my life is on the line.

Energy is irrelevant. Penetration isn't everything either. Momentum dictates how much energy gets transferred to the recipient, and "stopping power" is about a lot more than just energy and velocity.

The 45 colt has 25% greater momentum than the 357mag.

Done deal for me. Even if either is "enough for bear," the 45 Colt is "more enough"...

 

Done deal for me. Even if either is "enough for bear," the 45 Colt is "more enough"...

I think this statement sums up the situation. If you really need a gun to defend yourself carry the biggest and most powerful round you can control.

 

From what most of you said it's a crap shoot anyway, I would imagine that that includes much larger calibers as well. I'm not saying it's all about luck either, but you would basically need something to scramble his brain and get far enough to do just that. Basically I wanted best of the two for multiple situations, the bear thing is for a "just in case" situation, not for specifically going bear hunting, although they are around where I usually go.
I will end up owning both eventually. In fact I might buy a .45 Colt New Vaquero Birdshead too....eventually. All I know is, this definitely won't be my last, I doubt I will limit myself to just one caliber either, but right now finances say pick just one.

 

Then buy a .357, good caliber to start out with & build up from there!

 

I would say neither. 44 magnum would be much better for bear. If you want a 44 mag that is not too bulky look into Taurus. They make the ultra lite and also their 44 mag Tracker is easy to carry.

 

I'd want the biggest bullet I could get against a bear!

 

Sorry but I disagree with the “train vs motorcycle” comment. I know from personal experience what a motorcycle will do to a sheepdog when it hits it going 120....it made more of a mess of the dog than a train going 5 would have. Same concept on bear....except if the 45 at 1,000 FPS is a train in this case,the motorcycle would have to be a .22 moving at 50,000 FPS for that comparison to be reasonable. When penetration is a main concern, obviously size and mass will effect overall force but it’s truly the speed that wins the day. A 223 will pierce ar500 armor plating much better than say, a 12 gauge slug. The 12 will have MUCH more energy for breaking bones, but it’ll stop once it hits the object, as the potential energy is dispersed over a greater surface area, whereas a smaller bullet moving faster won’t crack the object, be it steel, bone, or what have you, but will punch a tidy little hole through it and actually hit the vitals behind it. Much the same as hitting a golf ball with an iron vs kicking the same golf ball with your foot. Your kick will have huge amounts of energy, but a golf club will apply ALL of its energy to the ball, where your kick will lose much of that energy and transfer very little to the ball. When comparing 45 long colt to 357 magnum, you don’t need to focus on which had a bigger number in front. Focus on the words behind. “Colt” or “Magnum”. I know which one makes me feel more confident.

 

Given the choice between .357mag and .45lc, I'd choose 12g slug.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

I'll throw in a wrinkle to this discussion. Get the .357 if that is your heart's content, but maybe get a .460 Rowland conversion for your 1911 .45 if it is one of them that can handle it. Would be much better at stopping a charging bear.

 

My wife swears bigger is better. She's usually right.
Go with the 45 Colt, something with 250 to 270 grains, solid point.
You will need penetration, do not use hollow points ! Cast lead SWC would be a good choice .
A 357 magnum is better than a sharp stick. Polar bears have been taken with them ...but like the wife say's bigger is better.
Gary

 

I am a long time owner of a Ruger .357 Blackhawk (6.5" barrel). So, over the years, I have probably shot a couple thousands rounds. A few years ago I bought a .45 LC Ruger Blackhawk Convertible (shoots both .45LC and .45ACP ammo with a cylinder swap). As a result of having both of these, and being a fairly long time member of the Shooter's Log (sponsored by Cheaperthandirt), I have created a very comprehensive ballistics files.

This file was intended originally for me to buy the ammo for my guns (4 calibers) at the best prices (all online), and with the ability to pick and chose the power of each ammo purchased. But my link to the S\hooter's Log forum caused me to expand my caliber coverage greatly, partly due to the ongoing discussion of 9mm vs. 45ACP ammo. At any rate, I ended up with covering 34 handgun calibers, and 19 rifle calibers. There are almost 18o00 handgun entries and almost 600 rifle ones. Each entry gives the location online to purchase (hot links), sorted by caliber, with the bullet type, rating, date entry was last updated, cost of the box (or can) of ammo, cost per round, and the ballistics of each round.

This file is free to anyone who requests it. I t will clearly show the difference in power between the .357 Mag and the .45 LC, which is quite large. I have never shoot an animal with my handguns, so I cannot speak on actual hunting experience, but from this file you will clearly see that the .45LC is a MUCH better choice for hunting, even thou the .357 Mag is powerful.

VincentL (09-20-2019)

 

Not quite as quick as use to be, at times.

Regardless, prefer a heavy momentuous, solid, high metplat, rock & chucker resulting in a large permanent wound channel. To the CNS as stated earlier, hoping most of energy is absorbed before exiting - in search of 2 large bleeding holes yet hopefully a charge stopper first.

Regardless of whether beast is coming at low or high speed. Hope never tested.

Very recently, near EurekaAK, the story goes .... a 30'06 to grizz head did NOT penetrate large sow w/ older juvenile twins - bear was probably extra irratable raising unruly teenagers. She was then finished off 16 hours later in same area, after severe mauling still took place earlier.

So, as big and powerful a gun as can handle is best.

 

back in elmers day his hopped up 38/44 was considered an excellent round for black bears. Back then as close to 200 grains and as close to 1,000 in a 38 caliber bullet was the IDEAL black bear round. These old timers knew it would bust through the ribs and collar bone

 

.357 is a wonderful cartridge for paper and violent criminals or invadors that do not have the tenacity of 'actual' wild beasts in the field that also have more sense.

heavier 44 and 45 slugs are more effective stopping terminators, hands down.

 

I do not hunt however have friends that do hunt bear religiously. The normal for them in rifles is the 45/70, 450 bushmaster, 50 beowolf, 44 magnum, and few carry pistols 44 mag, 45 colt, 454 casull, 460, 480, and 500 smith revolvers. I never hear of them using a 357, or mostly any caliber under 44 around here. They have a good reason im sure.

 

I ran the ballistics on various factory 357 and 45 Colt loads.

At 50 yards, most of the 357 loads have far more energy than the 45 Colt.
If I was carrying for bear defense it would not be either.
I prefer my 870 with an extended magazine full of 12-gauge slugs.

We only shoot cowboy action, and I have no desire for 45 Colt at all.
It has a well earned reputation for a less-than-accurate cartridge compared to modern designs.
Reloading 38SP is far less costly, considering the number of rounds we shoot.

Old model Vaqueros (pre-2005) will shoot anything you can feed them.
New model (post-2005) are lighter and not suited to magnum loads.
My wife and I have two of each, but only shoot cowboy loads.

 

.....re: 12g, perhaps somewhere in the neighborhood of 500g - 600g'ish., big .70 caliber soft hp slugs at 1300-1400 fps? Does sound pretty ominous against soft skin, as long as not too much blubber. 😉