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45-70 OAL problem.

9.6K views 13 replies 8 participants last post by  1 shot  
#1 ·
350gr Berry's plated bullet (.458 diameter)
Starline brass. (2.099 case length)

I'm seating to the cannelure and getting 2.458 for OAL. This falls short of the Hornady 9th edition's stated max of 2.545. Anyone ever reload for the 45-70 using Berry's? Did you also get a short OAL?

I'm not looking to drive the bullet really hard. I'm planning on a load using 32gr of 4198. In the Hornady 9th edition, that's the starting load for a 350gr Interlock. Yeah, I know, it's a different bullet, and the Interlock is jacketed. But Berry's says to use low to mid jacketed data for their plated bullets.

Anyways, will I be okay pressure wise with the 2.458 OAL using that starting load? Or should I seat away from the cannelure to get a 2.545 OAL, even if it means crimping where there is no cannelure?
 
#2 ·
What gun are you using? A lot of times COL is given so it chambers safely in your firearm. Lever actions might be finicky.
I think you will be ok with going to the cannelure. I almost never can get my COL to match what my manuals say with my 45-70. I use a single shot so I just make sure my rounds chambers just a smidgen shy of the rifling. Especially since you are using a starting load. Now if it gets way out of spec I'd worry about it. I think you'll be ok.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I have a Marlin 1895 XLR. I sarted with FUSION loads then went to the Hornady 325 gr rounds with the plastic tips. I was getting tired of paying $30 for a box of 20 rounds so I went to the Hornady site and found reloading tables for the 325 gr bullet. I loaded a few and they seem to work well, I put a heavy crimp on the cannelure. One time at the range I tried to eject a loaded round and it was too long to eject. I reviewed the reload table on line and found they suggested shortening the case to 2.02 inches. I did that and from then on I was able to eject live rounds. The length of the 325 gr bullet is longer than the standard flat nose or hollow points. I suggest you measure the COL of several different factory rounds and compare it to what your COL would be if you crimped at the cannelure. Whatever the difference is, trim the case to that length. I would try it with 5 or so cases and see how it goes. If you have access to a chronograph measure the MV and check for excessive pressure loads. I can tell you the Hornady 325 gr factory loads will wake you up in a hurry. Even with a shooting jacket, I don't shoot more than 20 at a time and usually stop at 10 or so.
 
#6 ·
You can't use data for the wrong bullet exactly as written - the bullet is different, the data for it will be different. The COAL for the Interlock is irrelevant for the Berry's bullet.

For a plated bullet in .45-70 and a tube fed Marlin, you'll want to roll crimp into the cannelure to prevent 1) bullet set back (roll crimp), and 2) bullet damage (in the cannelure). Rolling into the straight side of a plated bullet is no good. It's a pretty short based bullet, I expect you'll actually have MORE case capacity than the Interlock load intended (lower pressure).

32grn of 4198 under a 350grn is a mild load for trapdoor style rifles, I wouldn't expect any issue in trying it in a Marlin 1895.
 
#7 ·
There is MUCH wasted thought and effort put into Cartridge Overall Length!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a good hand loader, you should consider such info to be nothing more then a guide line and not a hard and fast rule to be adhered to.

First is the consideration of the bullet in question functioning in and through the firearm in question. Does it chamber and extract with out problems? If the firearm is other then a single shot, does a loaded cartridge fit the magazine and feed reliably from the box or tube mag?

Then, it is the responsibility of each Handloader to seek good and reliable load data and from that info "work up" a load that is not only safe but accurate in a given firearm.

A person that would take that "COL" data and strictly adhere to it along with simply because it is listed in the data source choosing and using an upper level listed load, simply because it, "is listed" is asking for big problems that will at some point come back to bite them.

Adjust the COL as needed for the firearm in question, then do a proper "work up" starting with beginning load levels to tailor the hand loads for a given firearm.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 
#8 · (Edited)
I bought a Lee 45-70 Factory Crimp die which allows me to crimp where necessary. Deeply seated bullets increase pressure. Ideally, you want to seat the bullet just short of the lands (NOT TOUCHING), so there's less of a jump.

Just a side note... The M94 action is one you don't want to exceed max O.A.L. I broke my carrier with a long .430" 320 LPB. Was several years before I was able to find a new mfg'd. replacement.
 
#9 · (Edited)
The potential for increased pressures with "deeply seated bullets" is a non-issue providing a person does a proper work up!

If however the crimp is not sufficient to maintain proper bullet position and as such allows the bullet to - under pressure from magazine spring or recoil - slip into a deeper the case, this could potentially cause excess pressures.

This should not be an issue with almost all cast bullets as they are cast with a crimp groove that can be firmly crimped too with a properly adjusted 3 die set. No need to buy any lee products.

As per seating the bullets into the lands. Again, NOT a problem PROVIDING a proper load work up is done.

In fact, some people with some firearms pre seat the bullet into the lands before the powder charged cartridge case is chambered behind the bullet.

I have fire formed 30/06 brass to 30 Gibbs using the long - into the lands - seated bullets to hold proper head space during the fire forming process. No safety issues with proper powder charges/load work up.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 
#10 ·
The potential for increased pressures with "deeply seated bullets" is a non-issue providing a person does a proper work up!

If however the crimp is not sufficient to maintain proper bullet position and as such allows the bullet to - under pressure from magazine spring or recoil - slip into a deeper the case, this could potentially cause excess pressures.

This should not be an issue with almost all cast bullets as they are cast with a crimp groove that can be firmly crimped too with a properly adjusted 3 die set. No need to buy any lee products.

As per seating the bullets into the lands. Again, NOT a problem PROVIDING a proper load work up is done.

In fact, some people with some firearms pre seat the bullet into the lands before the powder charged cartridge case is chambered behind the bullet.

I have fire formed 30/06 brass to 30 Gibbs using the long - into the lands - seated bullets to hold proper head space during the fire forming process. No safety issues with proper power charges/load work up.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
True...
 
#11 ·
I have a few thousand loaded with a custom Hoch 550 gr. creedmoor bullet with an OAL of 2.915 and they fit my Sharps with room to spare. They also fit my Magnum Research BFR but not my Marlin 1895.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for all the input and info. Here's an update. I was able to get to the range today with my chrono. Average was 1341fps out of a Marlin 1895 SBL (18.5" barrel). Primers looked good after firing, and extraction was smooth and easy.

Fun gun to shoot with this load.