i appreciate the report............

on a side note as i never gave it much thought until i read a story about a gun kb that was possibly ammo related(not monarch). Anyway, the gun was to be sent in for testing as well as the factory ammo, etc.

Serious question is---with ammo from russia, china, or where-ever, if the ammo destroys our gun with say a bad overload, etc, what legal recourse do we have dealing with these foreign ammo makers as far as ammo quality and liability? Federal, winchester, remington is on this side of the ocean so we might have a leg to stand on. But some of this off-brand import stuff, what's a feller to do? go after the importer? Is there any "consumer protection" for us gun lovin' folks dealing with imported ammo from russia or 3rd world countries?

 

I see it like this-The boxes have Academy's name on them,so if the ammo causes a problem-They're who I'm gonna pursue about it. But...this is a P-Series we're talking about-most anything just shy of a nuclear bomb is OK in these things .
JL

 

deputy125, I've discussed this very issue with the Ruger service dept. They told me all Rugers are designed to shoot any factory ammo that is loaded to SAAMI standards in their factory chambering. Unfortunately, SAAMI is not a world wide standard so foreign made ammo may or may not comply. Ruger can either charge for repairs or refuse to work on guns damaged by non-SAAMI compliant ammo. As you questioned ... I think you would be "on your own" as far as getting any support from a foreign ammo manufacturer.

In addition to the obvious chamber pressure issues, there can also be problems with bullet weight, OAL, and military crimp. Besides, some foreign made ammo may burn dirty, may have steel cases that are tough on extractors, or may just have poor quality.

Personally, I only shoot my own hand loads or US made factory ammo in my guns. I bought some Winchester White Box ammo at Wal-Mart a few months ago in 223 Rem. It shot like crap. When I read the fine print, the box was marked "Made in Israel" . I'll never buy WWB again. A bargain price on foreign brands of ammo is not worth the risk of damaging my guns or getting poor performance.

 

i was afraid of that..........liability wise.
so ammo imported into this Country does not have to meet SAAMI specs?

 

?thought?

Another well read moment.
We as the general public DON'T know. I ?thought? unless marked otherwise

A good example of why I spend time reading what each of you post.
My firearms aren't picture quality, they are not anything special to anyone but me, and I'll be danged should one ?break? because I ?thought?

Thanks

 

deputy125, Correct .... SAAMI is is an association of the leading US manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components. It is an acronym for Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute. There are some foreign companies that do a lot of business in the US that are listed as SAAMI members but most foreign companies don't bother. Here's the SAAMI web site http://www.saami.org/index.cfm

SAAMI sets voluntary specs for ammunition that have become the industry standard. They include: full case dimensions as shown in most reloading manuals, bullet diameter, bullet weight range and style in some cartridges (ie 45 Colt or 30-30, in tube fed rifles), velocity range, maximum chamber pressure, and even cartridge head stamps. There's no law or requirement to follow SAAMI specs so most foreign companies do not comply simply because it cost more to produce ammo if the specs are tighter. In addition to the actual cartridge, SAAMI sets the pressure testing standards and specifies procedures so all participating companies will do it exactly the same.

Most MILSPEC military ammo does NOT meet SAAMI requirements for the parent cartridge. Example: a 223 Rem is the parent cartridge for the 5.56 NATO. The 5.56 is loaded to 72k psi max chamber pressure whereas the civilian 223 Rem is loaded to 55k psi max. Because the SAAMI pressure test points are located on the case body instead of the military procedure that tests at the case mouth, you end up with grossly different specs just because of different testing procedures. When tested using the SAAMI procedure, the 5.56 will be hit about 62K chamber pressure, which is still too hot for a SAAMI compliant cartridge.

The 9mm Luger (or 9mm Para, or 9X19) is loaded in more countries than any other cartridge. It varies a huge amount because of the intended use. 9mm NATO ammo (MILSPEC) and 9mm machine gun ammo is way hotter than SAAMI or CIP ammo yet can be bought here in the US as milsurp. You can demo a pistol in short order using this hot ammo... yes, even a Ruger could succumb to this stuff.

The European equivalent of SAAMI is the Commission Internationale Permanente (CIP). See: http://www.cip-bp.org/index.php Their specs can be considerably hotter than SAAMI. Here's an example: a SAAMI 357 Mag is loaded to a max chamber pressure of 35,000 psi and the same cartridge in CIP is loaded to 45,500 psi. That extra pressure could be enough to demo a light frame 357 such as a S&W Mod 19.

Bottom line ... when you buy any gun, make sure you do some research which is included in most user manuals or you can call the manufacturer and find out what ammo it is rated for your gun. Likewise, before you buy foreign made ammo, do some homework on the Internet and find out what spec it was loaded to. It could result in anything from a potential safety issue to a minimum of poor performance. With Ruger firearms, it's safe to say all are rated for SAAMI spec ammo. Some will work with MILSPEC, and some will will work with CIP but don't assume anything.

 

appreciate it.

Seems that i remember when beretta m9's were having the slide failures, one thing that was brought out was the use of hot sub gun ammo as a possible culprit. Makes perfect sense...................

 

deputy125, As I recall, 9mm sub-machine gun ammo is loaded to 60k psi where SAAMI limits are 35k psi. I think MILSPEC NATO 9mms run about 40k psi. Both the GI version M9 and civilian version 92 FS are rated for MILSPEC ammo.