Welcome to the show That's a great looking stock on that American!

 

The only centerfire cartridges that I've ever heard don't move enough to see bullet holes appear are the .17s and the 204 Ruger.
Anything bigger than those recoils enough that you can't maintain the sight picture.

 

First welcome to the forum.

The short answer is no, I don't think I stay on target with my 22-250 either. My .204 is the only center fire rifle I own where I can maintain a visual......there's nothing I enjoy seeing more than the "red mist" on a PD hunt.

 

Any sporter weight 30-06 is going to jump. Big game sporting rifles require a different technique to print the best groups. Both my Savage .270 and .30-06 will shoot 1" 3 shot groups, but only with a hard hold using both hands. Experiment with bipod, bags, and rests to see what works best to steady the rifle; but hold tight with one hand on the forend. I get good results off a bipod using my left hand to manipulate a bag under the toe of the stock with small caliber rifles. My Rem 700 .223 w/ 26" heavy barrel is the upper limit for shooting unbraked rifles that way. I have aT/C Compass .243 sporter with a muzzle brake that sits still and lets me spot my hits. To get good results letting an unbraked rifle recoil freely in a big game caliber you will need to go to a 12 to 15 pound precision type gun.

 

What brake do you use on your Compass?

 

I've had a sporter weight 30-06 for 50 years and there is just too much recoil , even from a padded rest , from a bench with a finger looped over the barrel , trying to hold it down .
Never could do it .... The rifle always recoiled enough to mess up holding a visual.
We had heard that if you maintained the sight picture you could see the bullet in flight to the target...but by the time you regained a sight picture the bullet had hit the target , we only had 150 yards to work with so we gave that experiment up .

Welcome to the forum from Louisiana !
Gary

 

Back East we often hunt at short ranges, so I practice at 50 yards, using a spotter with binocs to tell us how we do with the .30-06. Never been able to see the impact myself.

 

Welcome from Michigan. Sorry, a .30-06 has enough recoil that you will never be able to keep the scope clear through the whole shot process. I can with my long heavy barreled .22-250 with a big scope but even if that rifle was in .30-06, it would still not be enough to do what you are asking. Never the less, the -06 is a great caliber, my first and favorite big game hunting rifle was the great .30-06. It has harvested game all across the country and scored my longest hit on big game with a one shot kill on a mule deer in Wyoming. Enjoy the recoil and heed the advice given on shooting from a rest and it will treat you well.

 

Something I didn't mention when using bags or bipod the only thing on my rifle is my trigger hand. The more hands/finger you have on your gun the more difficult it becomes to duplicate your shot during a range session. Fingers on barrels will only throw the harmonics off. Even with my 7 mag I just eat the recoil.

 

A .30-06 Ruger M77 mkII is my one and only big game rifle at the moment.

Yes it jumps. No it doesn’t matter for hunting.

I read everything Jeff Cooper ever wrote about rifle shooting including his wonderful “The Art of the Rifle.” I’m a true disciple of his. Get as close to your game as possible. Get in the most steady position possible based on the terrain. Without dismounting the rifle from your shoulder after the shot, work the bolt as vigorously as possible without being abusive to the gun. By the time you have worked the bolt your scope should be back on target. Shoot with both eyes open unless you’re one of those folks whose eye dominance doesn’t allow for this; it’ll help you get back on target quickly and see both the sight picture and the bigger situation if your animal doesn’t go down and starts to run.

 

On my Ruger no a PWS PRC brake will almost eliminate muzzle rise, but not completely. And it does not eliminate kick.

 

No.

Not even with my M1 Garand, which weighs 10 lbs and is gas-operated.

I can keep the target in my sights/scope with my .223 rifle, but nothing more powerful. Your mileage may vary.....


Jim

 

I shoot semi auto .300 wm, .30-06, and .308. The only one I can keep the target in the scope after a shot is the .308. I am not a small guy either. Its very difficult with a .30-06 or bigger, unless the rifle is heavy with a long bull barrel (9+ lbs.). Nice stock on the RAR by the way.

 

Just got back from the range today... Attached are the results.

Before I forget, not including ammo, my rifle weighs in around 9.3lbs.

I built a jig out of 3/4" plywood and 1/4" MDF glued together to see if it would help tame the bipod jumping. In addition to the jig I used carpet material which the range provides for their cement bench rests and I practiced a few techniques...

1. Sheets 1, 3 and 4: I used my left hand to hold the forend down while loading the bipod against the jig. Jumping still occurred in all shots.

2. Sheet 2: I placed my left hand under under the butt stock area. Jumping still occurred in all 5 shots.

3. Sheets 3 and 4: In addition to the techniques described in #1 above, I also used my trigger hand to hold the trigger for a few seconds after the shot in hopes of reducing jump. A few times I was able to keep my eye looking through the scope, but the jump was enough to still move the rifle off target by about a foot or more.

After reading all your responses so far, it appears everyone who has shot .30-06 or bigger has the same problem with jump. It's sort of comforting yet I still feel a few more tweaks to my jig might solve the problem.

I've read in some forums that bench shooters use towels (folded in layers) to help dampen the shock-wave to reduce bipod jump. I know of an industrial rubber mat that is used for high traffic areas. My Father-in-Law lives with us in the suite downstairs and we bought him the rubber mat material so he could stand for hours in his RC hobby room to work on his RC planes and boats.

Our range also provides the shooter the ability to shoot from prone. They have portable plywood/2x4 framed floors that one drags to their bench station. It has carpeting as well. At my next session I am going to try prone.

 

Bipod bounce

I am hearing that fore end control is recommended when using a Bipod, especially on a hunting weight rifle. Some may lay their off hand on the scope to reduce the jump. More reasons to go shooting, experiment with loading the Bipod and applying some form of fore end control.
IIRC there are videos done by a long range hunting guide from New Zealand that explore Bipod shooting from field positions.

 

Thanks for the tip on type of muzzle brake. I am under 5'6", but heavy set. I can handle the kick. It's the jumping that I need to control because it plays a part in how accurate the rifle is able to shoot.

 

My .308 weighs in at least 13 lbs and taming the jump remains a challenge and consistencies, calling the shot and follow through are other things to be mindful of. Maintaining a visual is a tall order!

 

Right... His name is Nathan Foster. I purchased his video on Vimeo for a 3-month period. I watched the entire video. He had some interesting tips on how to manage recoil although his test rifle, if I remember correctly, was a .243.

Back in September I drove 3 hours from home and spent a weekend hunting. We didn't see any deer, but at the end of our last hike we shot a few rounds from a prone position out to 225M. That was the first time I felt like I could actually watch my shot through my scope. The rifle did bounce a bit, but I was pleasantly surprised that I was able catch the bullet hit the rock that I was aiming at.

During those 4 shots I had my bipod resting on a combination of dirt and rock and I was probably 5 degrees in a downward prone position with my daypack resting under the magazine area. Those 4 shots left me with a feeling that if the material under my bipod could somehow absorb enough of the shock-wave that it might be possible to prevent bipod jump.

 

Here's a bench that I made for my range, with that piece of 1 by screwed to the table one can front-load a bipod pretty good...... but the "jump" doesn't go away.

If you want your groups to improve get a rear bag.......left hand on the bag to squeeze, right hand on the trigger. Let your bipod do the work up front for you. Any hand forward of the trigger with a bipod mounted will do nothing, nothing but make your groups look like a shotgun test pattern.

 

Welcome, my 06 is a sporterized Mauser with set triggers and peep sights so blocking is instant when the front sight jumps. It plugs great groups It’s just remembering the sight picture.

 

I hand a similiar experience with my few light weight bolt guns. I have a winchester 7mm rem mag model 70 with a boss. I also have a savage 111 in 270 winchester. Well the 270 being so light and shooting off a bipod it moved around alot. So I decided to put a witt machine clamp on compensator. Basically you measure the barrel with a micrometer at the muzzle, and 1" back. Give them the bore diameter and select a finish. I purchased a cerakoted black one which matches the blued 270's barrel. Around $100. Well I installed it with loctite per the directions, and took it to the range. My groups actually shrank from 1.5 to .75 or better at 100. I am using a handload a 140 accubond with w760 and its marvelous. The design reduces the recoil, and keeps the muzzle from rising allowing you to get back on target almost simultaneously. I was so pleased with it when I built my large frame ar in 338 federal I ordered the same style compensator in the threaded version, its slinging a 225 grain accubond with more kinetic energy out to 400 yards than my 7mm rem mag.

I can say that I really trust these compensators and I have used and own many from different manufacturers some 2 times the cost. However if I was hunting with it, I would invest in some noise cancelling hearing protection that magnifys below 75 or 80 decibels. I would not fire them without hearing protection. Here is my 270 with a witt machine brake. I can say its one of the best I have used.

 

Have you really gone 138 rounds since you last cleaned the gun? All guns are a little different but my 308 and 30-06 Americans would not shoot their best after that many rounds. You might want to give it a good cleaning, a few fouling shots, and then shoot for accuracy. You might just see some improvement especially once you've found the ammo that it likes.

PS. What changed in July? Those groups are almost an inch smaller than any other "average" .

 

Hi ScottMn,

The session on July 9 was with my Caldwell lead sled similar to the photo attached. I have also attached results from that date as well.

 

And... With regards to # of rounds before cleaning...

Here's a youtube video which describes how some rifles actually perform their best after 100 or more rounds.

As for my rifle, since it's in a Boyd's stock, it has a slightly weaker V-block design than the Ruger factory V-block design therefore I am having my Gunsmith pillar bed it this week.

Once that's done, if my groupings continue to get bigger I will certainly look at cleaning it thoroughly to remove the copper fouling.

 

Once that's done, if my groupings continue to get bigger I will certainly look at cleaning it thoroughly to remove the copper fouling.

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a You Tube vid, the copper fouling is easy to get out.......Its the dreaded Carbon ring that I'd be concerned with and without a bore scope one is just guessing.

 

I was concerned that the rifle was not happy with those hand-loads despite the low SD and ES numbers. The random fliers and horizontal/vertical stringing evident in the groups was worrisome too. The pictures of the groups fired from the Caldwell Lead Sled were tighter and much more symmetrical however. I'm now thinking it's just a matter of refining the bipod technique, which is not easy with a .30-06 sporter. I have better results with my .270 and .30-06 off bags. I like shooting soft recoiling rifles from the bipod, and get good accuracy doing so. I often use a folded towel under the bipod feet to cushion the bounce. In the field if you can scoop out a little trench for the bipod feet you accomplish two things. The softer loose dirt cushions the bounce, and you have resistance to push against to load the bipod. I use a combination of bags and cushions with various rifles, and have good results even from field expedient positions. Keep experimenting, you will figure out how the rifle wants to be supported and held. By all means CLEAN THAT BARREL. Just because the guy on Youtube has one that shoots well dirty (1500rds is nearing the end of a .243 barrel's life) doesn't mean yours does. Most rifles will begin shooting consistently after just a few fouling shots. Many rifles will group better after a total of 100 rounds have gone down the pipe, but they need to be cleaned along the way. Happy shooting, and good luck!

 

@ngashooter... Thanks for the tips. I intend to continue improving my marksmanship skills while also making incremental improvements to my rifle. Presently, these are the modifications that have been made.

1. Replaced synthetic stock with Boyds heritage laminate stock in pepper grey
2. Replaced factory trigger with a Timney Trigger and set it to 2lbs
3. LOP was adjusted to 12.75" to better fit my shoulder and trigger hand
4. 1" recoil pad was ordered with the Boyds stock
5. Boyds plastic trigger guard (and plastic magazine latch) was eventually replaced with Boyds metal trigger guard and metal magazine latch.

Scope is a Nikon Monarch 3 4-16x42 BDC.

Upcoming mod...

1. Pillar bedding: my neighbour is a retired gunsmith who I got to know when we moved into the neighbourhood 2 years ago. I wouldn't exactly call him retired though. At 81 years old he is very active in the sport shooting community and continues to compete in local competitions. His vast knowledge and experience is a gold mine for those who interested in learning the art of gunsmithing.