[MeagerHair]

Welcome, my 06 is a sporterized Mauser with set triggers and peep sights so blocking is instant when the front sight jumps. It plugs great groups It’s just remembering the sight picture.

 

[ngashooter]

Any sporter weight 30-06 is going to jump. Big game sporting rifles require a different technique to print the best groups. Both my Savage .270 and .30-06 will shoot 1" 3 shot groups, but only with a hard hold using both hands. Experiment with bipod, bags, and rests to see what works best to steady the rifle; but hold tight with one hand on the forend. I get good results off a bipod using my left hand to manipulate a bag under the toe of the stock with small caliber rifles. My Rem 700 .223 w/ 26" heavy barrel is the upper limit for shooting unbraked rifles that way. I have aT/C Compass .243 sporter with a muzzle brake that sits still and lets me spot my hits. To get good results letting an unbraked rifle recoil freely in a big game caliber you will need to go to a 12 to 15 pound precision type gun.

What brake do you use on your Compass?

I bought a no-name brake for 6.5mm off Amazon for about $17.00 that comes with a crush washer. It works great with 6mm projectiles. Factory .243 Win 100gr deer loads have zero recoil or muzzle jump. It's loud though.

 

[Tacky]

I hand a similiar experience with my few light weight bolt guns. I have a winchester 7mm rem mag model 70 with a boss. I also have a savage 111 in 270 winchester. Well the 270 being so light and shooting off a bipod it moved around alot. So I decided to put a witt machine clamp on compensator. Basically you measure the barrel with a micrometer at the muzzle, and 1" back. Give them the bore diameter and select a finish. I purchased a cerakoted black one which matches the blued 270's barrel. Around $100. Well I installed it with loctite per the directions, and took it to the range. My groups actually shrank from 1.5 to .75 or better at 100. I am using a handload a 140 accubond with w760 and its marvelous. The design reduces the recoil, and keeps the muzzle from rising allowing you to get back on target almost simultaneously. I was so pleased with it when I built my large frame ar in 338 federal I ordered the same style compensator in the threaded version, its slinging a 225 grain accubond with more kinetic energy out to 400 yards than my 7mm rem mag.

I can say that I really trust these compensators and I have used and own many from different manufacturers some 2 times the cost. However if I was hunting with it, I would invest in some noise cancelling hearing protection that magnifys below 75 or 80 decibels. I would not fire them without hearing protection. Here is my 270 with a witt machine brake. I can say its one of the best I have used.

 

[ScottMn]

Have you really gone 138 rounds since you last cleaned the gun? All guns are a little different but my 308 and 30-06 Americans would not shoot their best after that many rounds. You might want to give it a good cleaning, a few fouling shots, and then shoot for accuracy. You might just see some improvement especially once you've found the ammo that it likes.

PS. What changed in July? Those groups are almost an inch smaller than any other "average" .

 

[onelegwest]

Hi ScottMn,

The session on July 9 was with my Caldwell lead sled similar to the photo attached. I have also attached results from that date as well.

 

[onelegwest]

And... With regards to # of rounds before cleaning...

Here's a youtube video which describes how some rifles actually perform their best after 100 or more rounds.

As for my rifle, since it's in a Boyd's stock, it has a slightly weaker V-block design than the Ruger factory V-block design therefore I am having my Gunsmith pillar bed it this week.

Once that's done, if my groupings continue to get bigger I will certainly look at cleaning it thoroughly to remove the copper fouling.

 

[Mark204]

Once that's done, if my groupings continue to get bigger I will certainly look at cleaning it thoroughly to remove the copper fouling.

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a You Tube vid, the copper fouling is easy to get out.......Its the dreaded Carbon ring that I'd be concerned with and without a bore scope one is just guessing.

 

[ngashooter]

I was concerned that the rifle was not happy with those hand-loads despite the low SD and ES numbers. The random fliers and horizontal/vertical stringing evident in the groups was worrisome too. The pictures of the groups fired from the Caldwell Lead Sled were tighter and much more symmetrical however. I'm now thinking it's just a matter of refining the bipod technique, which is not easy with a .30-06 sporter. I have better results with my .270 and .30-06 off bags. I like shooting soft recoiling rifles from the bipod, and get good accuracy doing so. I often use a folded towel under the bipod feet to cushion the bounce. In the field if you can scoop out a little trench for the bipod feet you accomplish two things. The softer loose dirt cushions the bounce, and you have resistance to push against to load the bipod. I use a combination of bags and cushions with various rifles, and have good results even from field expedient positions. Keep experimenting, you will figure out how the rifle wants to be supported and held. By all means CLEAN THAT BARREL. Just because the guy on Youtube has one that shoots well dirty (1500rds is nearing the end of a .243 barrel's life) doesn't mean yours does. Most rifles will begin shooting consistently after just a few fouling shots. Many rifles will group better after a total of 100 rounds have gone down the pipe, but they need to be cleaned along the way. Happy shooting, and good luck!

 

[onelegwest]

@ngashooter... Thanks for the tips. I intend to continue improving my marksmanship skills while also making incremental improvements to my rifle. Presently, these are the modifications that have been made.

1. Replaced synthetic stock with Boyds heritage laminate stock in pepper grey
2. Replaced factory trigger with a Timney Trigger and set it to 2lbs
3. LOP was adjusted to 12.75" to better fit my shoulder and trigger hand
4. 1" recoil pad was ordered with the Boyds stock
5. Boyds plastic trigger guard (and plastic magazine latch) was eventually replaced with Boyds metal trigger guard and metal magazine latch.

Scope is a Nikon Monarch 3 4-16x42 BDC.

Upcoming mod...

1. Pillar bedding: my neighbour is a retired gunsmith who I got to know when we moved into the neighbourhood 2 years ago. I wouldn't exactly call him retired though. At 81 years old he is very active in the sport shooting community and continues to compete in local competitions. His vast knowledge and experience is a gold mine for those who interested in learning the art of gunsmithing.

 

[ScottMn]

I understand that some guns may be able to go past 100 rounds but some may not. Your best groups were in July when the gun had how many rounds on it??? After that I don't believe I'm seeing an significant, consistent improvement in group sizes even with all the practice etc.... After that many rounds and the practice that comes along with it I would personally be looking to change something to see if I could get down to that 1.5 MOA range again.

You need to know if it was low round count that helped those groups. If it was, and you continue shooting changing things to achieve better accuracy you're just throwing money down the drain. I would be willing to bet, that after a REALLY good cleaning, and a few fouling shots, your groups would be consistently smaller. At some point you're going to have to clean it anyway.

 

[onelegwest]

I recently discussed the topic of bipod jump with a guy named Dan Newberry. He runs a long range shooting school near Virginia called BangSteel.com. Dan is also the creator of the optimal charge weight (OCW) method.

Below was his response...

"I don't like the lead sleds, it's too hard to get consistent placement and pressure for recoil control... they end up harming accuracy instead of helping it.

A good muzzle brake does a lot for the lighter rifles, it'll turn your 30-06 into a light .243 as far as recoil goes, even with full power loads.

I've shot tight groups off a bench with a hunting weight 30-06 with no muzzle brake (years ago)... but controlling recoil consistently is the tough part. If you can do that, it helps considerably as far as accuracy goes. That is why muzzle brakes help accuracy so much. It's not that the rifle is any more accurate with the brake than without, it's just that you can shoot it so much more consistently as far as recoil control, and trigger control too for that matter (less tendency to flinch).

If I wanted to shoot very accurately with a high powered rifle and no muzzle brake, I'd go with a heavy rifle, bull barrel, and somewhat lighter cartridge (6.5 Creedmoor, for instance)".

It looks like I've got some thinking to do. Either shoot with a muzzle brake and wear ear protection on my hunts or look at going down in caliber size and going a bit heavier on the rifle in order to not have to use a muzzle brake.

 

[daw]

I'll chime in here. I have a .30-06 hunting rifle. It is a custom Remington 700 (1970's vintage) with a 24" magnum contour barrel. I forget who made the barrel. It is a sub moa gun when shooting off my range bag. Even with crappy ammo, i.e., my "lets get rid of some powder" hand loads. I enjoy the recoil. I embrace it. Then again, I enjoy shooting 3 1/2" 00 buckshot.

When I shoot, I have gotten into the habit of looking down range as soon as possible after the bang. You are never going to see the hit through the scope. I would never put a brake on my rifle. With the 24" barrel, I can shoot it multiple times not using ear pro without my ears hurting.

When I go out and practice for hunting, I will shoot from multiple positions EXCEPT sitting at a bench or prone. I don't use a bipod, instead I bring a stuffed backpack and will occasionally use it as a rest. The last deer I took, at 100+ yards, I was sitting on a rock and resting my elbow on my knee.

Shooting from a bench does not tell you how well YOU can shoot.

 

[daw]

I should also mention that the bullet is already out of the barrel by the time the rifle jumps.

 

[ruger 220 swift]

I should also mention that the bullet is already out of the barrel by the time the rifle jumps.

I agree with you on the bullet being out of the barrel by the time the barrel jumps 100%. But there are a lot of nay-sayers out there who will disagree with us.

 

[onelegwest]

Hey Daw,

Thanks for sharing. I, too, am fine with my Ruger American 30-06 kicking me in the shoulder due to the 1" recoil pad.

I suppose if it's true that muzzle rise, or bipod jump, has zero effect on accuracy then I will continue my training without a muzzle brake. Then again, in a hunting scenario, if I happened to miss on my first shot, I will be struggling to re-acquire my target again for the 2nd shot.

Hmmmm... I guess I better not miss on the first shot then.

 

[Mark204]

I agree with you on the bullet being out of the barrel by the time the barrel jumps 100%. But there are a lot of nay-sayers out there who will disagree with us.

The average amount of time a bullet spends in the barrel is about .002 seconds. Naturally barrel length, be it shorter or longer and MV, faster or slower will change that number but it will be very little. People won't agree with this, but if a persons gets 3000 rounds of usable life out of their barrel, that barrel lasted 6 seconds, (3000x.002=6). That bullet is long gone when the barrel jumps.

Accuracy issues are usually the product of the shooters form not the weapon.

 

[patkelly4370]

The average amount of time a bullet spends in the barrel is about .002 seconds. Naturally barrel length, be it shorter or longer and MV, faster or slower will change that number but it will be very little. People won't agree with this, but if a persons gets 3000 rounds of usable life out of their barrel, that barrel lasted 6 seconds, (3000x.002=6). That bullet is long gone when the barrel jumps.

Accuracy issues are usually the product of the shooters form not the weapon.

Is it apples to oranges to compare to handguns?
It has been shown that bullet weight changes POI, with heavier bullets hitting higher because of muzzle-rise (recoil) and time travelling down the barrel.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Mark204]

Is it apples to oranges to compare to handguns?
It has been shown that bullet weight changes POI, with heavier bullets hitting higher because of muzzle-rise (recoil) and time travelling down the barrel.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I'm not talking about handguns are you?

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/facts-about-barrel-life/

 

[daw]

My experience at .30-06 shooting. No cooling off period was taken during each group. I let the barrel cool between groups though.

My setup.

My first ten shot group. Top hole is one I pulled. And yes, this is ten shots.

My second ten shot group. My gun hates this load apparently. Not to mention there was no wind (very unusual where I live) and the mirage was getting horrible.

Recoil doesn't really affect group shooting, unless you are heavy into benchrest shooting.

 

[Ed P]

My experience is completely different from ngashooter. Letting a rifle recoil naturally is what gives me the best accuracy. The rifle forestock sets in the front rest and the buttstock rests on a sandbag. My left hand is at the sandbag. I want the rifle sitting in the same position relative to the rests for every shot and able to recoil freely in the same way each shot. I also want the butt in my shoulder with the same pressure each shot. That consistency is what minimizes the effects on the rifle that change the point of impact. When shooting at game I do what ngashooter describes to limit movement and get back on target the quickest, but not when accuracy testing on a bench at the range.

In regard to staying on target with a .30-06 in a hunting rifle configuration, no way.