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AO definitely adds to flexibility. For use on a .22 rimfire I try to find out how short a distance the scope can be focused. Our indoor range is only 50' and many centerfire scopes don't work well that close.

Bruce

 

I am new to scopes. I want to put one on a 22 LR rifle. I want to be able to get a good picture at close and medium ranges, but be able to stay accurate beyond 100 yards.

I guess I wonder if an ao scope is best. My question is: in principle, can ao scopes be parallax corrected for just about any range and magnification?
Most adjustable objective scopes will correct to traditional rim-fire ranges. The upper limit is marked at infinity, and in most cases is about 600 yards. A 4-12x magnification would work well. You are better off to save your money a little longer than planned, as it is never a mistake to get better glass than you need.

 

John E., Many people don't understand "parallax" and buy scopes that are parallax corrected for distance beyond a normal range for 22 LRs. Fixed parallax scopes are typically factory corrected for 50~60 yards for a rimfire and 100~150 yards for a centerfire. The normal range for a 22 LR is from 25 yards to 75 yards. Beyond 75 yards, most 22 LR rifles won't hold a tight group unless they are "target rifles". A lot depends on your definition of "accuracy" ..... mine is 1" groups.

Yes, scopes are made that can be parallax corrected for virtually any distance past 10 yards. This requires either a "side dial" or an adjustable objective lens (AO). There is both good and bad with an adjustable parallax scope. The good news is, you can set the parallax correction for virtually any distance. The bad news is .... it takes a few seconds to do this plus you need to know the distance to your target. At the range, no problem .... you have plenty of time to adjust for a known distance but when hunting, you just never know where a bunny will jump up .... could be 10 yards, could be 70 yards. As such, you don't have enough time to adjust parallax without loosing the opportunity for a shot.

The shooting industry says a 22 LR's scope should be 1X per 10 yards and guess what? Scope manufacturers just happen to make rimfire scopes with a variable power of 2~7X .... a perfect match for the most probable shooting distances and still usable out to100 yards. These rimfire variable power scopes are parallax corrected for 50~60 yards and can not be user adjusted. Further, they don't need to be user adjustable because parallax tracks with magnification quite well up to 7X.

I have two 2~7X rimfire scopes and did a thorough range test with both of them. My Leupold was factory corrected for 60 yards and I found there was less than 1" crosshair drift from 25 to 100 yards on 3x. At 7x, there was less than 1" crosshair drift from 40 yards to 80 yards. Using my Nikon 2~7X, it was factory parallax adjusted for 50 yards and I found at 3X, there was less than 1" crosshair drift from 18 yards to about 75 yards at 7x. I think either scope will cover the normal shooting distances quite well with no need for an AO or side dial. This assumes you are using the scope the way it was designed to be used.

Assuming the target is at 20 yards and your zoom ring is set to 2x, you should get the same view as a naked eye at 10 yards, As your shooting distance increases, the zoom ring is adjusted for 3x at 30 yards, 5x at 50 yards on out to 7x at 70 yards, all of which will produce a "10 yard naked eye view" and will track with less than 1" of crosshair drift from parallax error. If you use 7x at 30 yards, you can expect almost an inch of crosshair drift, but that will still keep your shots in the bunny's kill zone.

So, for small game hunting, plinking, and informal target shooting, a 2~7X rimfire fixed parallax scope is hard to beat. If you bench rest shoot, you can easily increase magnification but you will need an adjustable parallax scope for distances beyond about 75 yards. Here's where a centerfire scope with a side dial or AO can come in handy.

I have a Night Eater 50mm 3~10X centerfire scope on my target 10/22 build. It's a heavy gun (12 lbs), not well suited for hunting or even off hand shooting .... just benchrest. I ran this scope through the paces just to get an idea of how parallax affected crosshair drift at various distances. I started with the side dial set to 100 yards, just like most factory fixed parallax scopes. At 3X, I could get less than 1" crosshair drift from 35 to 150 yards. At 10x, about 80 to 125 yards. The crosshair drift error rate at 10x when shooting from 25 yards was a whopping 5". When the side dial was set to the proper shooting distance, there was virtually no crosshair drift.

The point of this dissertation is .... no one scope is best for all applications so choose the one best suited for your intended use. Take a few minutes to read my article in the forum E-Library titled "Scope Dope". Here's a link: (1) Scope Dope | Ruger Forum

Here's my 10/22 build with a 3~10x Night Eater scope:

 

AO for rimfire is great. I can get a clear sight picture from very close to at least 150 yards.
I like Athlon Neos scopes for .22lr rifles. I have 4, 2 of the 4-12X40 and 2 of the 6-18X44 and they have been very good.

 

dwarren, You must be using your 22 LR rifles for benchrest shooting because it is very difficult to hold the gun still enough for a good shot when hunting with magnification over 4X. For benchrest shooting, the Athlon Neos is rated quite high, especially at the attractive price.

 

Actually it is not hard for me. I sometimes use them off hand and unless my nerves are acting up I am pretty steady, just have to practice.

 

I also prefer higher magnification for 22LR’s. Generally, with a 22LR, I’m shooting pretty small targets, whether hunting, plinking, or competing, compared to centerfire rifle shooting, so the 22LR still deserves a highly refined reticle picture to allow precise placement of point of aim. Offhand, prone, benched, or field expedient, it really doesn’t matter much - my primary 22LR’s have a 4.5-18x, a 3.5-21x, and a 5-25x on top. Even one of my 22LR Mark III’s carries a 2-8x optic, to allow a fine target picture.

So yes, I use Side Focus optics on my 22’s, in place of AO optics which aged out of application for me. Parallax focus matters a lot when you’re shooting for 3/8” targets at 25 yards and reaching out to 300+ with the same optic.

 

I'm glad I found this thread. I'm in the market for something and shopping for 22lr optics gives me a headache. With closer in distances there's so much more to think about than centerfire applications.

I had planned on buying a receiver and building up a nice 10/22 this winter but then I started looking at barreled actions from Kidd. One thing led to another and I ended up ordering a complete rifle. I have a feeling this is going to be the fanciest schmanciest plinker around.

Most of my shooting is at distances of 25-75 yards at my buddy's farm. I usually start offhand at 25 or so yards. When I get tired of that I toss on the bipod and shoot off the picnic table at 50-75 yards. (Sometimes closer than 50, rarely as far as 100 yards.) I'd say about 70% of the shooting is with the bipod.

This is going to be a nice rifle so I don't want to cheap out on the glass but at the same time I don't need to go overboard and break the bank. I've always been a Leupold guy but I'm not real crazy about their current VX-Freedom offerings. A lightweight 3-9x40 AO with a duplex reticle would make me happy but I'm just not seeing anything.

That VX3-HD in either 2.5-8 or 3.5-10 power has nice glass but parallax is set at 150 yards. I'm wondering if it could be dialed back to 50 that might be perfect...

Any advice?

 

22 LRs tend to create the biggest problems for shooters and here's why. Typically we shoot at small targets .... like hunting rabbits versus deer with a high-power rifle. We also shoot at distances where parallax can cause the most problems .... meaning closer rather than farther. If you look at a parallax dial, you will see a wide gap between yards at closer distances and a very narrow gap at longer distances. This means parallax correction is way more critical at closer distances. 22s are often fired from distances as close as 10 yards to as far as 100 yards. Some shooters even expand the distance to 300 yards. This is quite a mission for any optical device, but there are solutions available, depending on your intended use. In my opinion, there's no such thing as a perfect scope for all the different possible uses so make your decision based on the most probable use .... not a "what if" use.

For hunting, I highly recommend a rimfire scope with a 2~7X magnification and no sidedial or AO. Why? With a magnification well under 10X, you really don't need to adjust for parallax but primarily, it's a "time and distance issue". Let's say you were hunting squirrels and spot one on a tree limb. First, you need to know how far away the squirrel is so you can set your AO or sidedial to the proper distance. Then you need to set your magnification. While you are busy determining the distance and "knobdicking" your scope, the squirrel has wandered off. A better solution is to use a factory parallax adjusted scope, fixed for a mid-range distance and with the zoom ring set at the closest distance. Why? If Thumper the rabbit jumps up at a close distance, you are ready to shoot. If you see a critter at a longer distance, chances are you will have plenty of time to adjust the zoom ring. A Rimfire scope is usually parallax corrected for 50 yards so if you use the 2~7x scope the way it was intended, you will not experience a significant issue with parallax. Magnification is the enemy of parallax so the higher your magnification, the more critical parallax will be. At 2X there is a very minimal parallax correction and at 7x, where you would be shooting at a longer distance, there would be very little parallax error. At 10X and beyond, there is a very significant parallax issue.

For bench shooting with sandbags or a bipod, where distances are easy to determine and time is not an issue ... a much higher magnification can be used. Any scope over 10X will need to be parallax corrected at different distances so the easiest to use is a sidedial scope. I'm not a big fan of high magnification (over 10X) for many reasons but if you like high magnification, go for it!

The reason for variable power scopes is to establish a magnification reference point for distance. The shooting industry says .... for 22 LRs, if you maintain a 10 yard naked eye view through your scope, you will get the best results. This means if the target is at 20 yards, your zoom ring should be set on 2X .... 5X for 50 yards or 7x for 70 yards, etc.

Parallax scope optics work just like camera depth of field optics .... meaning the minimum distance and the maximum distance where the camera still focuses sharply. With scopes, there is another dynamic known as the reticle (crosshairs) so parallax must be corrected where both the crosshairs and the target are in sharp focus between min and max distances, which will minimize crosshair drift caused by parallax.

Today, we enjoy having many scopes to choose from. Even inexpensive Chinese made scopes are pretty darn good. Typical with any optics, higher quality means more money so scopes can easily range from 50 bucks to several thousand bucks. Brands are very competitive .... meaning if you compare scopes with the same features and quality, chances are they will be about the same price. It takes exceptionally good eyesight to tell the difference in a $200 scope versus a $500 scope with the same magnification and objective lens size.

Here's my selection for a scope that meets my needs for benchrest shooting. It is a Night Eater 3~10X, 50 mm, with a side dial. It gives me excellent performance from 10 yards to 100 yards. I rarely shoot my 10/22 at distances beyond 100 yards so I don't need or want higher magnification. I think I paid less than $150, including the Weaver rings.

Here's my favorite scope for small game hunting. It's a 2~7X 40mm rimfire scope on a Remington Mod 511 rifle. It sold for just under $100.

 

Thank you.

I used to have a bad habit of buying neat looking guns especially ones that reminded me of my grandpa's collection even if I had no practical use for them. They added up quickly and I had a few safes full until a couple years ago. I realized I don't get out shooting the CF rifles all that often and I didn't need a couple dozen in various calibers so I sold off pretty much everything going for quality over quantity and bought a few high end rifles -- Sako, Cooper, Anschutz. I thought about what I'd be using each one for and what kind of scope would be appropriate. I may not have stuck to the adage of spending as much on glass as on the gun, but what I put on was very nice. I think it made me a bit of a scope snob.

So these days when I go on a website offering up advice on rimfire scopes I start thinking "Well that's nowhere near good enough. That's too small! Not enough power!" I need to stop looking at them from a centerfire point of view, and also like you said buy for what I'll actually be doing not some hypothetical thing I "could" do someday. I'm not using it to shoot things 1000 yards away and I'm not doing competitions. Something with a side focus or adjustable objective in 3-9 power is probably going to suit me just fine. The centerfire side of me keeps telling me not to go less than 40mm and that it'll look funny on the rifle if it's smaller but a good portion of these scopes are in the 33-36mm range and that's just what I'm going to have to have.

 

Amazing thread!
Thanks to all of you for your information and feedback. Looking for a scope for 22LR rifle and this is a big help.
Rick

 

rickclark, If you haven't already done so, take a gaze at my Scope Dope article in the Forum E-Library. It goes into greater details on parallax, reticules, magnification, turrets, scope selection, etc. Here's a link: Scope Dope | Ruger Forum

 

I must be showing my age.

My 39A and a fixed 4 power Leupold .22 scope, drops anything in the cross hairs. Sweet and simple.

 

A lot of threads here concerning scopes for a .22 and parallxx. I use cheap 3 x 9 x 40 centerfire scope on mine set on 4x, & like another poster said, I hit any thing in the cross hairs. The scope view is clear, plenty of field of view, etc. Nothing screwing with me as far as the view if i move my eye left, right, up or down. Guess I got lucky.

 

There's not a lot of parallax difference between a centerfire and a rimfire scope at 4X. However, parallax differences are very notable when you go over 9X. That said, at close shooting distances (under 40 yards), even a 4X rimfire scope will perform slightly better than a 4X centerfire scope. Further, if you get a consistent cheek weld where your eye is positioned the same for each shot, parallax seems to disappear. The issue with parallax comes from viewing through the scope at different angles. Of course, if the viewing angle is off too much, all you get is vignetting (black view).

 

I ended up getting a Leupold 2-7×33 VX Freedom. I ordered a picatinny rail. I may need to remove the rear sight for clearance if I avoid high or very high rings.

I have been told to mount the scope directly to the receiver. I did not seek clarification on whether this means I should forgo the rail and mount the scope some other way, perhaps with Weaver mounts. Is it suitable using the rail, and Low mounts, if the scope will let me, for a good low set-up? Is there a better way?

Like I said, I am willing to remove the rear sight, for a low profile and good weld.

Any help would be welcome. Thanks.
BTW, the rifle is a Savage MK2 FSS.

 

All scope bases have thickness, which increase scope height .... some much more than others. All rings increase scope height too. The bottom line ...... as long as the front bell of scope does not touch the barrel and the rear of the scope clears your bolt handle, you should be good to go. I like to have enough clearance on the front to allow the use of scope caps.

The real issue is YOU. For stability, you want to get a good cheek weld at the same head position as when vertical and horizontal eye relief allow a full view through the scope .... no black areas top/bottom, left/right. The test is to close your eyes, shoulder the rifle and get a good cheek weld, then open your shootin' eye. You should instantly get a full view through the scope without repositioning your head. Don't forget to adjust the focus for the sharpest view of the crosshairs with a white cloth draped over the front lens.

From what I have read on the Internet, if your scope is not at its lowest possible position, it won't work. This is grossly overstated. I agree with positioning the scope as low as possible for a full view with a good cheek weld, but I don't agree with positioning the scope so low that it interferes with vertical eye relief (black areas at the top or bottom).

 

All scope bases have thickness, which increase scope height .... some much more than others. All rings increase scope height too. The bottom line ...... as long as the front bell of scope does not touch the barrel and the rear of the scope clears your bolt handle, you should be good to go. I like to have enough clearance on the front to allow the use of scope caps.

The real issue is YOU. For stability, you want to get a good cheek weld at the same head position as when vertical and horizontal eye relief allow a full view through the scope .... no black areas top/bottom, left/right. The test is to close your eyes, shoulder the rifle and get a good cheek weld, then open your shootin' eye. You should instantly get a full view through the scope without repositioning your head. Don't forget to adjust the focus for the sharpest view of the crosshairs with a white cloth draped over the front lens.

From what I have read on the Internet, if your scope is not at its lowest possible position, it won't work. This is grossly overstated. I agree with positioning the scope as low as possible for a full view with a good cheek weld, but I don't agree with positioning the scope so low that it interferes with vertical eye relief (black areas at the top or bottom).

Thank you! When I was keeping a pack mule out of work (i.e. surveying) 40+ years ago we would focus the cross hairs of the transit/theodolite every day by pointing it at the sky. It was just natural to keep doing the same thing with rifle scopes. I never heard mention of using a white cloth but it sure sounds more convenient when focusing a rifle scope at the bench than trying to point at the sky. I will be using this tip.

Bruce

 

Fire Escape, Many people don't understand how rifle scopes should be focused so I will post a lengthily dissertation:

First, the eyepiece is adjustable on virtually all scopes. This eye piece adjustment will correct for your eye's nearsightedness or farsightedness, (measured in diopters) to make the scope's focus track with your vision. Most scopes will have a range of +or- 3 diopters so if your vision is worse than that, you will need to wear glasses or contacts when using the scope. If your vision is within the rated diopters for your scope, you will find viewing without glasses is more distortion free. Once the eyepiece is adjusted for one person, chances are it will need to be readjusted for a different shooter, unless the other shooter's vision is the same.

There are two focus parameters with all scopes. The factory sets the focus for distant objects via parallax correction and the eyepiece sets the focus for the reticle (crosshairs). When these two parameters are in sync, the reticle will appear to be sharp focus when distant objects are in focus. The limiting factor for distant object focus is related to "depth of field", just like a camera where objects from a minimum distance to a maximum distance appear sharply in focus. Any object too close will appear blurry or if too far away, objects will appear slightly blurry because focus is always more critical at closer distances.

When focusing the eyepiece, the mission is to make the reticule (crosshairs, dots, etc) appear as sharp as possible. You can point a scope at the sky, at a white wall, or just put a Kleenex or thin cloth over the objective lens. The reason is to keep from spoofing your eye and prevent you focusing on an object instead of the crosshairs.

There are two types of eyepiece focus adjustments. The older style uses a lock ring and fine threads where it may require several turns of the eyepiece to dial in focus. The newer and better type is called a "fast focus" where there is typically one turn of the eyepiece from lock to lock.

If you have a scope with a side dial or an AO for parallax correction, eyepiece focus is a bit more complex. Because both the eyepiece and the side dial (or AO) affect distant object focus, they need to be set properly so the indicating dials are calibrated. Place an object at 50 yards then set your AO or side dial to 50 yards. Adjust the eyepiece for the sharpest view of the crosshairs. Rotate the side dial/AO to 100 yards, then while looking through the scope, rotate the side dial/AO until the object at 50 yards is in sharp focus. If your dial indicates 50 yards, you are finished but if it doesn't you may have to tweak the eyepiece adjustment until the side dial or AO track with distance. Once the scope is focused properly, the side dial or AO can be used as a crude range finder but more importantly, when the dial is set at the same distance as the target, parallax will be corrected. What you don't want is parallax correction at 40 yards when indeed the target is at 50 yards.

 

I think the positioning of a scope is a lot of personal preference. I like my stuff as low as I can get it, but that's me. The most distance I will shoot with my 10 22 is 75 yards,which is where I sighted in, & most of the time when hunting, it's a lot less. 4 x works fine for me either way. Unfortunately it's too expensive, not practical, & time consuming to try different scopes, & one has to read all they can & make a decision from that & hope it does the trick. The same set up doesn't work for everyone.

 

I installed the rail. I used medium rings because the length of the rail got in the way of the scope bell. Now, it rides high. I have to use a jaw weld. When I get a good cheek weld, the scope goes black.

I am dissatisfied. I guess, I will go to a two-piece mount, so I can get a lower profile. It remains to be seen whether the rear sight will be compatible. Thank you all for the input. I'll get it set up the way I want, eventually.

 

How long is your rail? what size scope do you have?

 

And what kind of rifle do you have this on?

 

That's a super nice scope, not tryin to be nosy, just getting the skinny on what you have to maybe help you with your problem.

 

It's a Savage MK 2 FSS. It has iron sights. I wanted to keep the irons on but am willing to remove them for a low profile.